Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-horley-v6ops-lab-00.txt

"Dale W. Carder" <dwcarder@es.net> Mon, 14 June 2021 19:14 UTC

Return-Path: <dwcarder@es.net>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3103A2EC5 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=es.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q092WO-xLmZU for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com (mail-ot1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12B043A2EC3 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id p5-20020a9d45450000b029043ee61dce6bso4813575oti.8 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=es.net; s=esnet-google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=ZBlQMV68vWWeAk5qlRKthvUBvS3BVsrUhCQiVZ44xpM=; b=HPf8J0nxVfXMlvmDgIWuNwt+0+LCxAVOTPVletpJaQSVZWq9F13qjB2delWfGjLnyx 076Y5lSGXF6dktQsGHeJ8mjZ2wDlF5xut3qNAIZxdlFmfUlrxLXETTAQbsPNZFcM9spF iBJj/WUYev4Hjw/XOX+C8yp4vKnPqWNy5P0/wMR/NAxbDbo7rJ2hCvpDi4Nl8XcSB9Hq zUgSl+PAjZxetgLluSLc3YMIWllWBL2ZrtuoZtNQ2qKmGpDGjWUTc48Ly6y3ltdWaRYD BlpStbvUTI7swVqw9Wr/BJvik3SdHC+4AGWdxlhZ4LMT6hZlgrtJBUZXrLCZIDvZwz+0 kYUQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=ZBlQMV68vWWeAk5qlRKthvUBvS3BVsrUhCQiVZ44xpM=; b=JeOLkHat69ktClZJKttmyNCtUy+yYy8EYvGdKWobcmAOELCM4Ax/gtnDb7ZjX3wCtU 8igVG/+a0gOgeSWe5mgGjg06kmHA/5yzYNgjbZ16TL9CbC6q1WoPYwO5pGIRYrrRm9xn Ny0PGsns+3THYF91HmjtDWYHelADUcdbvY3m11Tum/sM06cDDchYbSVWcjOMZN4900Sd rzjUJj5JuFPOsi9CBX1637MI7jECNab2EduHuz0ZIvxjokbAXa1EOfiV7sz89cEzsniz Vu2S3DJgmuHBLdaIkbfYR4FdJ5Bl5jSJN24Qbq+8hQnXXaSZ4djDhSITOFsD2oAoJiR1 CHiA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531FvkDSoNLdu1ibobatNraYsH0L1P708bbXu1gniHZgui8u2Mck tqrbU5ByOk+Tpm1Meho7t1n9xXIRKxbP8drfqQ6ikncEX5Jb0J2FlZ+XxAXfqCympljYYTfYtcq 4awpmcIgWml35fWnR2dwlCDsBtYBlXZvUe9y5tOy7p4OPBEakKF/WO1X2gJlP
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+fJ341UGyXX1pyniwf0l/wmiCQHHmWhE4BAfNJpzlYMSyBWzKHFmxCZnjwteh23yhV8lrsQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2aa4:: with SMTP id e33mr14067048otb.330.1623698075394; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost ([2600:6c44:5f7f:b901:ac7f:3da1:87f2:a5e9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l7sm3461508otu.76.2021.06.14.12.14.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:14:33 -0500
From: "Dale W. Carder" <dwcarder@es.net>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: IPv6 Operations <v6ops@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <YMeqmaptccNjQnDM@dwc-desktop.local>
References: <162293202497.20978.11278185466573537743@ietfa.amsl.com> <d928f260-e0b1-7672-7114-7ac09dace037@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <d928f260-e0b1-7672-7114-7ac09dace037@gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/1Kteo5BOEK_Vhtgp7ImZv9ajPEM>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-horley-v6ops-lab-00.txt
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:14:43 -0000

Thus spake Brian E Carpenter (brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com) on Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 10:22:51AM +1200:
> My concern about this draft is that it intentionally creates ambiguous address space, something we have very carefully avoided since the beginning of IPv6.

I'm not sure I worry as much about ambiguous as having more prefixes 
be marked "special", some of the implications of which seem may be at 
the heart of this proposal.

In draft-horley-v6ops-lab-00.txt,

"For instance, designing labs utilizing ULA fc00::/7
   [RFC4193] is problematic due to the random global ID requirement
   preventing hierarchical network prefix design possibilities."

Have the authors considered updating 4193?  Is the randomness the issue,
or is the resultant /48 the issue?  (of course, one could utilize
multiple random /48's as I think has been pointed out)

"Further, default address selection behavior [RFC6724] by end nodes
   may result in a depreferencing of such addresses and prevent lab
   deployments from accurately modeling their desired non-lab
   equivalents."

And this is the implication of having prefixes marked as special.  The
default behavior (which is only a SHOULD, i think) is not configurable or
at least not in a sane manner on a variety of platforms.  Presumably the
closed ecosystem devices (handhelds, particularly) have a goal of
minimizing user complaints and implement the table as specified, notably
with ULA at a lower precedence than GUA.  Would your document also need
to update 6724's table?  If I were a closed ecosystem vendor, once I
found out that $new_prefix gets assigned for lab use, I would probably
be inclined to move it fc00::/7 now that it becomes "special" rather
than as a stock GUA.

Dale