Re: [v6ops] [OPSEC] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IPv6] Why folks are blocking IPv6 extension headers? (Episode 1000 and counting) (Linux DoS)

[Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]>]

Ok Eduard I recognise a bit of the epidermic reaction (after all I am half latin blood) and missed the telco context because I see the drama in enterprise context every single day!

Now ironically the example I took below was a telco!

But I buy your point … all good

> On 25 May 2023, at 07:58, Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard=[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Arnaud,
> It is a good point that Enterprises have much more serious attention to security. But Telco is not so much paranoid about security.
> The last initiative in this WG is about “to push Telco to tolerate all EHs”. The context of this discussion is more about Telco.
>  
> > The additional cost you can find ways to write them off
> In the majority of cases “No”. Because tests could not be free, support could not be free either. Performance penalty may be close to Zero (only a small loss of bandwidth) – depending on the EH type (maybe a 2x drop of performance because of recirculation).
>  
> > the ‘additional cost’ and the ’security risk’ are not symmetric at all.
> Yes, it is an apple and orange comparison. But both exist, and both may be discussed.
>  
> Ed/
> From: Arnaud Taddei [mailto:arnaud.taddei=[e-mail]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2023 8:47 AM
> To: Vasilenko Eduard <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Fernando Gont <[e-mail]>; Manfredi (US), Albert E <[e-mail]>; IPv6 Operations <[e-mail]>; 6man <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [OPSEC] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IPv6] [v6ops] Why folks are blocking IPv6 extension headers? (Episode 1000 and counting) (Linux DoS)
>  
> +1 just that the ‘additional cost’ and the ’security risk’ are not symmetric at all.
>  
> The additional cost you can find ways to write them off
>  
> The security risk is much more damaging because it is a compliancy risk (think DORA for the FSI in EU), a reputation risk that is now captured by credit rating agencies, a revenue risk, a  stock rating agencies (your stock will drop), insurance ratings, etc. and 1) it is getting substantial and 2) it is even existential with a few examples that some organizations literally lost e.g. an MNO of €1.3B and 30 years of existence (only survived by 1 backup link), etc
>  
> On 25 May 2023, at 07:21, Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard=[e-mail] <mailto:vasilenko.eduard=[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
> IMHO: Fernando comes here with a good example (EH DoS). Security is a good reason to block EHs.
> But for business, every feature should be tested, supported, and somebody should pay an additional performance penalty.
> I am not sure which reason is bigger: additional cost or security risk. It depends on the organization type.
> Ed/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OPSEC [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Arnaud Taddei
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2023 8:12 AM
> To: Fernando Gont <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: Manfredi (US), Albert E <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; IPv6 Operations <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; 6man <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [OPSEC] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IPv6] [v6ops] Why folks are blocking IPv6 extension headers? (Episode 1000 and counting) (Linux DoS)
> 
> Would like to support Fernando again, and not just because I have a Sony TV too. 
> 
> Cybersecurity is in such a bad state that I can only plea for a sense of realism and pragmatism vs dogmatism to get real solutions at hand to the defenders practitioners
> 
> If not I will ask people here to consider spending a week in a Security Operation Center when there is a Ransomware breaking up 
> 
> Fernando’s paper intentions will be appreciated by the defenders  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25 May 2023, at 03:07, Fernando Gont <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/5/23 02:01, Manfredi (US), Albert E wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Fernando Gont
> 
> Given the amount of things that get connected to the Net (smart bulbs, refrigerators, etc.) -- and that will super-likely never receive security updates, you may have to **rely on your own network**.
> 
> For instance, I wouldn't have my smart TV "defend itself".
> Agreed, "on your own network." >From the viewpoint of a household, whatever network defense has to be behind that household's router, for it to be credible, and preferably right in each host. Yeah, some IoT devices may not be updated regularly.
> 
> So, that's why people block them at the edge.
> 
> (just the messenger)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ISP has to worry about protecting that ISP's own network. 
> 
> That's e.g. where RFC9098 comes in, with notes on why they are dropped in places other than the edge network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Households have to be responsible for protecting their household's 
> network. (And connected TVs do get regular software updates, as a 
> matter of fact.)
> 
> I guess it all depends on the TV? e.g., I for one I'm not planning to throw it out just because Sony decided to quit pushing updates (which were never automatic for my set).
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Fernando Gont
> SI6 Networks
> e-mail: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> PGP Fingerprint: F242 FF0E A804 AF81 EB10 2F07 7CA1 321D 663B B494
> 
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