Re: [v6ops] draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs

Even with non-customer traffic, is syslog really the state of the art for sending data back to servers? Do you want anyone and everyone to see this information?

Regarding the active measurements themselves, I think the draft would benefit from referencing some of the RFCs and drafts from the IPPM Working Group. We have various documents on one-way and two-way active measurements (OWAMP/TWAMP). You can also take a look at some standard ways of reporting the metrics themselves, as described here: draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-08.

Thanks,
Tommy

> On Nov 27, 2018, at 5:22 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mikael,
> 
> I got the impression that when I originally proposed this, syslog was a privacy issue because it is sending data from "customers traffic" from their own devices to the ISP.
> 
> But in the actual proposal, the data is NOT from any customer, neither identifying the customer at all.
> 
> So not sure to understand if we have failed to clearly describe the way we are measuring, or you'd in mind the previous document?
> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
> 
> 
> 
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
> Organización: People's Front Against WWW
> Fecha: martes, 27 de noviembre de 2018, 12:45
> Para: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
> CC: "v6ops@ietf.org list" <v6ops@ietf.org>
> Asunto: Re: [v6ops] draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs
> 
>    On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Ron Bonica wrote:
> 
>> This week, please review and comment on 
>> draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs.
> 
>    I think it's a great idea to tell the operator about problems, that kind 
>    of telemetry can really help in operating the network.
> 
>    However, the proposed method of doing it (syslog) and the information it 
>    reports (IP addresses and domains the user is communicating with) has huge 
>    privacy implications. Also you have no idea who might be grabbing this 
>    information before it even makes it to the ISP).
> 
>    I think at a minimum there needs to be an encrypted and verified mechanism 
>    (https perhaps?) for doing the reporting, so you know where the report 
>    goes.
> 
>    I see three entities that have interest in this information, it's the ISP, 
>    the operating system manufacturer, and the web site which is having 
>    problems. If HE fails, I see very little harm (privacy) in telling the 
>    website about it using the address family that actually did work. So that 
>    could be included. For the device manufacturer, they have "send 
>    diagnostics information to vendor", so here customers can opt in. For the 
>    ISP, I have no idea. Here it might be better to define an API between the 
>    device vendor and the ISP, so that the device vendor can report problems 
>    seen, at an aggregate? I have personally been involved in getting 
>    operational people from my employer talking to device vendors to figure 
>    out what might be wrong, and automating this would be great.
> 
>    Also, the DNSSEC implications are glossed over grossly. We should take for 
>    granted that end devices are running validating resolvers and handle that 
>    use-case.
> 
>    So I'm supportive of the problem statement and it would help ISPs greatly 
>    if they could get telemetry from end devices, I just have great concerns 
>    over the method proposed in this draft.
> 
>    -- 
>    Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
> 
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> 
> 
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