Re: [v6ops] draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs

I checked related work in IPPM WG and quote RFC 2681 for round-trip delay
metric.  I'm looking forward to more input from IPPM to fit NHE usecase.

btw, thanks for your mail to IPPM.

Davey

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 07:01, Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> wrote:

> Even with non-customer traffic, is syslog really the state of the art for
> sending data back to servers? Do you want anyone and everyone to see this
> information?
>
> Regarding the active measurements themselves, I think the draft would
> benefit from referencing some of the RFCs and drafts from the IPPM Working
> Group. We have various documents on one-way and two-way active measurements
> (OWAMP/TWAMP). You can also take a look at some standard ways of reporting
> the metrics themselves, as described here:
> draft-ietf-ippm-initial-registry-08.
>
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>
> > On Nov 27, 2018, at 5:22 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=
> 40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mikael,
> >
> > I got the impression that when I originally proposed this, syslog was a
> privacy issue because it is sending data from "customers traffic" from
> their own devices to the ISP.
> >
> > But in the actual proposal, the data is NOT from any customer, neither
> identifying the customer at all.
> >
> > So not sure to understand if we have failed to clearly describe the way
> we are measuring, or you'd in mind the previous document?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Mikael Abrahamsson <
> swmike@swm.pp.se>
> > Organización: People's Front Against WWW
> > Fecha: martes, 27 de noviembre de 2018, 12:45
> > Para: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
> > CC: "v6ops@ietf.org list" <v6ops@ietf.org>
> > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs
> >
> >    On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Ron Bonica wrote:
> >
> >> This week, please review and comment on
> >> draft-xie-v6ops-network-happyeyeballs.
> >
> >    I think it's a great idea to tell the operator about problems, that
> kind
> >    of telemetry can really help in operating the network.
> >
> >    However, the proposed method of doing it (syslog) and the information
> it
> >    reports (IP addresses and domains the user is communicating with) has
> huge
> >    privacy implications. Also you have no idea who might be grabbing
> this
> >    information before it even makes it to the ISP).
> >
> >    I think at a minimum there needs to be an encrypted and verified
> mechanism
> >    (https perhaps?) for doing the reporting, so you know where the
> report
> >    goes.
> >
> >    I see three entities that have interest in this information, it's the
> ISP,
> >    the operating system manufacturer, and the web site which is having
> >    problems. If HE fails, I see very little harm (privacy) in telling
> the
> >    website about it using the address family that actually did work. So
> that
> >    could be included. For the device manufacturer, they have "send
> >    diagnostics information to vendor", so here customers can opt in. For
> the
> >    ISP, I have no idea. Here it might be better to define an API between
> the
> >    device vendor and the ISP, so that the device vendor can report
> problems
> >    seen, at an aggregate? I have personally been involved in getting
> >    operational people from my employer talking to device vendors to
> figure
> >    out what might be wrong, and automating this would be great.
> >
> >    Also, the DNSSEC implications are glossed over grossly. We should
> take for
> >    granted that end devices are running validating resolvers and handle
> that
> >    use-case.
> >
> >    So I'm supportive of the problem statement and it would help ISPs
> greatly
> >    if they could get telemetry from end devices, I just have great
> concerns
> >    over the method proposed in this draft.
> >
> >    --
> >    Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
> >
> >    _______________________________________________
> >    v6ops mailing list
> >    v6ops@ietf.org
> >    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
> >
> >
> >
> >
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