Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-ra-unicast
Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com> Wed, 22 July 2015 12:32 UTC
Return-Path: <furry13@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE631B324E for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.75
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8mZb2rf2_YE for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vn0-x22f.google.com (mail-vn0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c0f::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 608371B31BF for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by vnav141 with SMTP id v141so47508427vna.0 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G4ft/2caJEBuOEk0L5Q/z7naulHrn+1TJ/X/oNpNKR8=; b=Mw26OZy7UJobDIQvj4rFizqEc/F1j/1i5o+yizeBLEsADYDvGTeO+Rm/tSwaRs0jtw vRC0a3BdwAkyzicxD6IufGMudQO1iQpujVLH4+nieRc8Jttf4nMEhLA9X/Qg9T/zJoCg xXqZYdfw8PjM//tvhcaQZqmkQlRKrV2Ys1oZ4ZuDJ2e0bE5Tqf0/97AIDmlJov9beyCs 8QHpqXEAnhHI2FtLItv/17ur5UwWAokZbx/OgrEOjQSM71K80mcf/ul/y49e8MgcFMCr Pl/z/o+M73jVZV+2mkM+42b6Jvq6thU4+I4hUA24Oyby3page6PXZs6bXnNupPGTko9t D+Lg==
X-Received: by 10.52.139.176 with SMTP id qz16mr2650416vdb.71.1437568315671; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.31.189.83 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <55AF889F.6080206@gmail.com>
References: <201507071147.t67Bl13m009348@irp-lnx1.cisco.com> <CAO42Z2x7mNFbB_w_+W+80pY+LeCAKXaOBXMmQvkcaMSWhwW60g@mail.gmail.com> <EF21B630-5D0A-415A-A93F-9058900CC80C@cisco.com> <CAO42Z2zAqMXhBZ2wa=q0wtHGhMpMWU9TSjfFyd2quiki9w0oSw@mail.gmail.com> <85CADAA2-8DF2-4A6B-812B-7A77081936F5@cisco.com> <CAO42Z2w3fOxGJHasKqYZRfGZ2u=7FnZBm+jgLtgDvfZ7HYW=iw@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2z+DwOin23HQTysrZ9dNP924+LQ-vOExmJc_xZUEB4yCQ@mail.gmail.com> <228248C6-94FE-4C9C-A875-F732EFDC6601@cisco.com> <55AD3B64.5070400@acm.org> <CAPi140P+kfpyQKzCRDA7bZQRowQx_YRcZYa85hHe64g4AvsVTg@mail.gmail.com> <C5901B99-F3A7-4DB0-8216-38D95EA89D6A@delong.com> <CAMugd_Xox_zYv6oftPdAZVZGz+FYZo+Dm-QRSSn4pMEj-x1XjA@mail.gmail.com> <55AF0964.1060006@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr2y7e3bK8oYorCBPfdBAiyEkY5JJLaE+ixGczQdDjSPuw@mail.gmail.com> <55AF878E.1090200@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1xnKaYrFG4izZ4MbB1aRh89CGzTkc1ZjjryOgvdN0hQw@mail.gmail.com> <55AF889F.6080206@gmail.com>
From: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:31:36 +0200
Message-ID: <CAFU7BAShd1qOhLi5aRhO31_WFHFXZyUdgMEAi4CGZ=t1cL49JA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/P0WQ0lFreyvz7HlEMf_8eqU5its>
Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-ra-unicast
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:32:09 -0000
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > "... on Androids and iPhones"? > > But not on huawei E392. I'm not sure what the fact that huawei E392 is not affected by a particular issue proves. So far we know that - there are platforms affected; - there is one unaffected platform. Therefore I believe it is perfectly find for the title to be 'Reducing battery impact of Router Advertisements'. If a particular network and its devices are not affected - good, the network administrators MAY (or SHOULD?) ignore the draft and not apply the recommendations. > Le 22/07/2015 14:10, Lorenzo Colitti a écrit : >> >> I'm told the problem affects iPhones as well. >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Alexandru Petrescu >> <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> "Reducing battery impact of RAs on Androids"? >> >> Alex >> >> Le 22/07/2015 12:22, Lorenzo Colitti a écrit : >> >> Thanks for all the feedback. We have posted a -01 addressing >> some of the >> feedback we got. The new version also contains a new >> recommendation not >> to send periodic RAs too frequently, so we have changed the title to >> "Reducing battery impact of Router Advertisements". >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-ra-unicast-01 >> >> If there are no objections, we will upload this as a WG document >> in the >> next few days. >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Alejandro Acosta >> <alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com >> <mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com> >> <mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com >> <mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com>>> >> wrote: >> >> Hi There, >> I also support this document, it's very positive to see >> that this >> algorithm will save energy. >> >> Regards, >> >> Alejandro, >> >> El 7/21/2015 a las 6:11 PM, Nabil Benamar escribió: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I support this document which is very informative, >> useful and its >> implementation will certainly reduce energy consumption >> due to >> excessive Multicast RA sent. The proposed algorithm >> seems to be >> suitable for this end ! >> >> >> Best regards >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Owen DeLong >> <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com> >> <mailto:owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>>> wrote: >> >> It seems to me that the following algorithm would be >> relatively easy to implement >> and provide reasonable network optimization… >> >> >> On receipt of an RS: >> >> if(multicast_ra_time_remaining > 15 seconds) >> { >> Send_Unicast_ra >> } >> else >> { >> Send_Multicast_ra >> reset_multicast_timer >> } >> >> In this way, if the timing is reasonably close, you >> multicast >> a packet you were about to send >> anyway, but if the timing isn’t close, you’re not >> wasting >> multicast bandwidth answering a single >> node where nobody else cares. >> >> Overall, I’ve always thought that multicast >> response to RS was >> kind of silly. It’s probably most >> harmful on WiFi. >> >> Owen >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 02:33 , Andrew Yourtchenko >> <ayourtch@gmail.com <mailto:ayourtch@gmail.com> >> <mailto:ayourtch@gmail.com <mailto:ayourtch@gmail.com>>> wrote: >> > >> > On 7/20/15, Erik Nordmark >> <<mailto:nordmark@acm.org >> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>nordmark@acm.org >> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org> >> >> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org >> <mailto:nordmark@acm.org>>> wrote: >> >> On 7/17/15 9:34 AM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >> >>>> So the next logical thing to do would be to >> have the >> router default to >> >>>> unicast Router Advertisements, measure the rate of >> received Router >> >>>> Solicitations, and switch to multicast RA mode >> past a certain >> >>>> threshold to cover this sort of situation. >> Once the >> number of RSes >> >>>> falls, it switches back to unicast RA mode. >> >>>> >> >>>> That would get rid of the configuration knob >> proposed in >> this ID, and >> >>>> is behaviour that I think could be universal >> for all link >> types, >> >>>> rather than just for the case of wireless ones >> with >> mobile devices. >> >>> If it were me implementing it, I think I would >> go about >> this in a little >> >>> different way, hopefully simpler. I would want >> to send at >> most one (e.g., >> >>> either zero or one) RA per some interval (a >> second?). In >> the normal case, >> >>> that is sent unicast. However, having sent a >> unicast RA at >> time t, if I >> >>> now receive another RS before t+1, I send the >> next one (at >> time t+1) as a >> >>> multicast. >> >> >> >> First of all I support this document as a WG >> document. >> >> >> >> But in terms of implementation, isn't it simpler to >> always(*) respond to >> >> a RS with a unicast RA? >> > >> > Yes. I did not respond on-list yet - but from >> operational >> perspective >> > "always send solRA unicast" / "always send solRA >> multicast" >> definitely >> > wins in my book, and I'd avoid premature >> optimizations (but >> maybe we >> > can say the implementers are explicitly free to >> do their own >> > optimizations if they see fit) >> > >> > That said, will be very interesting to hear data >> from folks >> who will >> > run "all-unicast solRA", in real networks and >> then compare >> the effect >> > of their proposal optimizations on their >> real-world scenarios. >> > >> >> As background, the text in RFC4861 comes from >> the old >> concern that all >> >> devices might boot at the same time when the >> power is >> re-established >> >> after a building power failure; that doesn't >> happen since >> most devices >> >> (laptops, smartphones, IoT devices) have >> batteries today. >> In that case >> >> it might have made sense to sending fewer RA >> messages by >> using multicast. >> >> >> >> (*) the only case in RFC 4861 when I think a >> multicast >> response might be >> >> considered is when the source IPv6 address in >> the RS is the >> unspecified >> >> address. Further, an implementation which rate >> limits >> received RS >> >> packets (e.g., CoPP in a router) might also want >> to detect >> when the rate >> >> limit might have dropped RS packets and >> multicast an RA in >> that case. >> >> >> >> >> >> I do wonder why implementations haven't already >> changed to >> send unicast >> >> solicited RA, and whether it would make a >> difference if we >> have an >> > >> > TBH that's my concern as well. I think we should >> tweak the >> text in >> > 4861 to encourage a bit more consideration on the >> implementer's side. >> > >> >> informational document asking them to do this. >> Alternatively we could >> >> have a proposed standard which updates section >> 6.2.6 to >> change the "MAY >> >> unicast" to a "SHOULD unicast". >> > >> > Yeah, I actually have had the different text >> aimed for 6man, but >> > Lorenzo's concern was 6man would say "there is no >> protocol >> update >> > here, go away", so he rewrote it for v6ops. >> > >> > We should probably discuss this at the mic and >> get the >> opinion of the >> > 6man chairs - if there is no outright "no" on this, a >> normative doc >> > would be a better way to convince the implementers ? >> > >> >> >> >> FWIW the draft incorrectly refers to section >> 6.2.4 instead >> of 6.2.6. >> > >> > Nice catch, thanks! >> > >> > --a >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Erik >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> v6ops mailing list >> >>> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> v6ops mailing list >> >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > v6ops mailing list >> > v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org >> <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry
- [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-ra-un… fred
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Tarko Tikan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Nabil Benamar
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alejandro Acosta
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Jared Mauch
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Nabil Benamar
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-yc-v6ops-solicited-r… Mark Smith