Re: IETF meat grinder

[Richard Barnes <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 7:31 AM Michael Richardson <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>     > In the MLS WG, which is similarly 95% not habitual IETF offenders,
> we have
>     > proceeded mainly by doing work in the style the folks doing the work
> are
>     > used to doing, and accommodating the IETF to the degree necessary.
>
> Yes, so that exactly the situation.
> We have a small group, and we are working in the way that they are
> habituated, but I expect that there is an audience of tourists who are not
> github or IETF people.
>

To be clear, I didn't mean "use github" -- I would advise using whatever
tools make your group effective.


>     > Your subject line, "IETF meat grinder" seems like the wrong approach
> -- we
>     > as insiders should not be subjecting/inuring newcomers to the
> process, we
>     > should be making it easy to participate while meeting the IETF's
> goals of
>     > transparency / consensus / etc.
>
> Uhm, so my goal is to explain the parts of the process which are IETF
> things,
> and which parts are github things.
>
> it's an allusion to seeing how the sausage is made, not about grinding
> people, btw.
>

Thanks for that clarification!  I definitely understood it as the latter.
Maybe tells you something about how I feel about IETF processes :)

TBH, I don't think the official IETF process docs say all that much
prescriptively about how WGs have to work, so I think you have a pretty
free hand there, as long as you can ultimately demonstrate consensus, and
that there was openness and transparency in the process.  The final
approval steps are the main thing.  For that, the MLS chairs have a handy
map + "You are here" marker, see, e.g.:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/114/materials/slides-114-mls-chairs-slides-00.pdf