Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evaluation-00
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Tue, 03 November 2009 01:14 UTC
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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:37:07 -0800
To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evaluation-00
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Hi Ned, At 10:45 02-11-2009, Ned Freed wrote: The reqson I haven't bothered to answer is AFAICT there's really nothing to >say. Lisa's DISCUSS states: Alexey mentioned off-list that the matter [1] is no longer outstanding. >And if you want to have a discussion of how old specifications that have >inadequate security considerations will be updated, fine, but let's >not pretend >that having this discussion in the context of 1652bis is going to produce >meaningful results. Indeed, it seems to me that this DISCUSS is, properly >spealing, a DISCUSS about the overall YAM process that the IESG >needs to decide >for itself. But as a topic for a WG response pertaining to the document at >hand, it is entirely inappropriate and wrongminded. The comments are about the YAM process. The first pre-evaluation I-D was a way to determine how the overall YAM process would work. >With all due respect, I think we're WAY past the point where this degree of >indirection is anything but a hindrance to forward progress. The IESG needs to >state, clearly and directly to this WG, what their concerns are. I posted all the (formal) information I have available. I'll pass the above to the WG Chairs. >Well, if that's the case in general, then this effort is effectively over, and >we might as well disband this group right now and save ourselves a lot of >pother. Because if downrefs aren't going to be allowed, we're screwed because >references to things like TLS are never going to make it to standard in the >necessary time frame. I agree with you about the downrefs (personal opinion). >And I think the appropriate response to that is, "So what?" We appear to be so >wrapped up in nailing down every last detail of the process for every >conceivable document we might consider that we're losing sight of the actual >goal here, which is to address the minimal set of *technical* issues needed to >get the various core email specifications to Standard. Personal opinion again, it is not possible to nail down every detail. >For starters, the reference to RFC 822 in RFC 1652 is for ABNF and nothing >else, so it upgrades cleanly to RFC 5234 - already a Standard, no downref >needed. There's no need to reference RFC 5322 for this purpose at all. > >I'll also take this opportunity to point out that this is actually an error in >draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evaluation-00, which states that what >needs to be >done is update the reference to RFC 5322. So it seems that while >frothing about I made a note of the above. >As for the reference to RFC 821, the purpose of it is to get at the definition >of what's allowed in a message. I don't think a credible argument can be made >that the definition of the overall syntax of a basic message (i.e., 998 >chearacter or less CRLF delimited lines of 7bit ASCII), is ever going to >change. Pigs will travel at lightspeed first. > >Finally there's the reference to RFC 1651. The plan is to replace this with a >reference to RFC 5321, which is a fine plan, but if that's a downref >issue then >a reference to RFC 1651 - a Full Standard - could simply be retained. Noted. >Well, you asked. My comment is that I think this feedback has the >direct effect >of hanging this entire effort on the slenderest of threads, and the indirect >effect of locking in the present reality that our real process operates in two >steps, not three, irrepective of what our process documents say. I caught what you meant in the last sentence on the second reading. Regards, S. Moonesamy YAM WG Secretary 1. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/yam/current/msg00130.html
- [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evalu… S Moonesamy
- [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evalu… S Moonesamy
- [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-evalu… S Moonesamy
- Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-e… Barry Leiba
- Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-e… Ned Freed
- Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-e… S Moonesamy
- Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-e… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [yam] Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-pre-e… Alexey Melnikov
- [yam] Issue #4 (was: Status: draft-ietf-yam-rfc16… SM
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 SM
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 S Moonesamy
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 Ned Freed
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 Ned Freed
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 S Moonesamy
- Re: [yam] Issue #4 SM