Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains

"Bare II, Keith" <Keith.Bare@netapp.com> Thu, 29 July 2021 16:24 UTC

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From: "Bare II, Keith" <Keith.Bare@netapp.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
CC: "111attendees@ietf.org" <111attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [111attendees] Agenda pains
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/111attendees/ApTSe21LGxdFi4E5n7XRNWDskZ0>
Subject: Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains
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From: 111attendees <111attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:50 AM

> No idea who and how the rules to decide which city is used to represent
> a particular TZ. I would guess Los Angeles was choosen because it is the
> largest city in CA in DST, whereas San Francisco is just the fourth
> largest.

The "Continent/City" TZ names come from the IANA Time Zone Database.

https://www.iana.org/time-zones

The general rule is that a time zone is identified by the most populous city within an area that has historically observed the same local time.  But there is the complication that the population of cities changes over time, so the city in a TZ name might have been most populous when the TZ name was chosen, but is no longer most populous.

So in in the case of the agenda, it's using "America/Los_Angeles", the most populous city in the Western US, which uses the same local time as San Francisco, where a physical meeting would have been held.

Likewise, Eastern US uses the "America/New_York" TZ name because New York is most populous.  Even though one might think it would make more sense to use Washington, the capital city.

TZ uses location names instead of a customary time zone name like "Pacific Time" or "Central European Time" because historically a location may have used different offsets from UTC, DST rules, or a different customary time zone name.  A good friend of mine who works on the TZ database demonstrated this by showing how "Asia/Singapore" will use "Japan Standard Time" during the period Singapore was occupied by Japan during World War II.

I will agree that this is tricky when you need to try and figure out what time it is in some other city in a part of the world you are not familiar with.  For example, I have trouble remembering I need to use "Asia/Kolkata" if I need to figure out what the local time is Bangalore, India.

--Keith


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 03:39:44PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
>
>
> Le 29/07/2021 à 15:23, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) a 
> écrit :
> > Thinking out loud : why not make the "local" agenda option the default ?
>
> I support this suggestion, it makes sense: make the "Local" agenda 
> option the default.  Currently the default is "America/Los_Angeles".
>
> (I suspect it is the Los Angeles on the same timezone as the golden 
> gate bridge illustrated on the first page, because golden gate is a 
> symbol of San Francisco, and that is the City where the meeting should 
> have taken place if no covid.  But I suspect there are two San 
> Franciscos in "America" and only one Los Angeles.)
>
> Alex
>
>  Refreshing the agenda (to get the new WG agendas and
> > materials) would not require returning to the page's top to resync 
> > to local. I would assume most people use their local set timezone, 
> > so it could be positive for a significant majority. Regards, Julien.
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: 111attendees 
> > <111attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Maisonneuve, Julien 
> > (Nokia
> > - FR/Paris-Saclay) Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 7:54 PM To: Jonathan 
> > Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> Cc: 111attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re:
> > [111attendees] Agenda pains
> >
> > Good catch, that solves the 100+ entries menu. It still goes away on 
> > refresh but it's usable. Julien.
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Morton 
> > <chromatix99@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 7:36 PM To: Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia -
> > FR/Paris-Saclay) <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> Cc:
> > 111attendees@ietf.org Subject:
> > Re: [111attendees] Agenda pains
> >
> > > On 26 Jul, 2021, at 8:14 pm, Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia -
> > > FR/Paris-Saclay) <julien.maisonneuve@nokia.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just one comment on the meeting agenda : I really like the 
> > > "timezone" adjustment feature, it is very helpful once you get 
> > > past the 100+ timezone menu.  However when you refresh the page 
> > > (as you should to get updates of agendas, materials,...) you're 
> > > back to the original timezone and must go again through the 100+ 
> > > timezone menu each and every time.
> >
> > > This is a good feature, I'm sure there is a way to make it less 
> > > painful.
> >
> > You could hit the "Local" link just about the drop menu - that 
> > usually does the right thing.  It takes the timezone setting from your browser.
> >
> > - Jonathan Morton
> >
>
> --
> 111attendees mailing list
> 111attendees@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees

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