Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt
Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> Tue, 23 May 2017 20:45 UTC
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From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 15:45:21 -0500
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To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com>, 5gangip@ietf.org, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
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Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt
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On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I remain very skeptical about the value of this group's collected > protocols. > > The scope overlaps with work in the 3GPP, contradicts work in the 3GPP, > and > > the proposed ideas here are not obviously high value or fit for the > internet > > or mobile networks. > > > > Don't get me wrong, i am not in love with the 3GPP and i think there is a > > lot to improve on many fronts. But, MAMS and LISP and ILA are not on > the > > short list of approaches i would hold up the 3GPP and say this is a > better > > way. In fact, MAMS as a proxy and ILA as a NAT are exactly the legacy > telco > > stuff i would expect the IETF to work against in favor of a more secure, > > more salable, and more end-to-end internet. > > > > AFAIK, FMC is already solved today. My very own iPhone can make calls on > > WiFi, LTE, and switch between the 2 -- this is all standard 3GPP work > from > > IMS. When i sit outside my house with bad wifi, the UE bounces between > WiFi > > and LTE endlessly, but this unstable network does not interrupt me > streaming > > Youtube. So, i just don't see a problem to be solved here, especially > if it > > incurs a great deal of complexity and state and signalling. That said, > MIF > > and Happy Eyeballs both address this issue of performance and network > > selection -- and i would strongly suggest the UE is in the best position > to > > determine network quality and user experience. > > > > I can't get over it this reduction: MAMs adds a proxy and ILA adds a > NAT. I > > just don't think that is architecturally wise in 4G or 5G. They just > can't > > scale in a gigabit broadband 5G usecase [which is the usecase that pays > the > > bills, not the pie in the sky stuff], and don't add meaningful value, and > > simply detract value at scale. Also, ILA and MAMs takes a lot of work on > > the UE. Getting changes into the UE is very hard, it took 10 years from > the > > standardization of IMS to get functional IMS client (VoLTE) deployed at > > scale. > > Hi Ca, > > Can you explain why you think ILA doesn't scale to gigabit broadband? > > ILA requires no changes to UEs and it's already being deployed in > datacenters at higher bandwidths than gigabit. It's more efficient > than encapsulation in both on the wire overhead and processing > overhead. > > I think the point here is ILA with encapsulation. Otherwise we can not use ILA as in the datacenters, as we discussed before. Behcet > Tom > > > Finally, the 5G ship has already sailed. Many network are "launching 5G" > > this year, and more networks (including the one i work at ) are > committed to > > launching "real 5G" in the next 2 to 3 years. None of the work in this > > group is within that 5G scope AFAIK. So, it may be most appropriate to > carry > > on the effort at 6G to avoid folks getting confused. > > > > I still hold out hope for ILNP to replace the mobility core at some > future > > date, the radio network just does a simple authentication and that is > all. > > But, that is my own dream of a simpler world :) I would suggest the > > standard we look for in this group is: what can we remove from 3GPP 5G / > > 6G, not what we can add. How does the work in this group reduce NET > > signalling and user-plane modification from the 3GPP steady state? How > is > > that quantified? > > > > CB > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:53 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de> wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> We have updated the PS draft on 5G IP issues regarding the planned BoF > in > >> Prague. > >> > >> Please check whether we have addressed the comments correctly and > continue > >> to discuss this towards further improvement. > >> > >> Thanks a lot – also on behalf of Roland, SungHoon, and Behcet > >> > >> > >> > >> Best Regards > >> Dirk > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> > >> Date: Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM > >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > >> To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>, Tom Herbert > >> <tom@herbertland.com>, Roland Schott <roland.schott@telekom.de>, > SungHoon > >> Seo <sh.seo@kt.com>, Roland Schott <Roland.Schott@telekom.de>, Dirk > von Hugo > >> <dirk.von-hugo@telekom.de>, Satish Kanugovi <satish.k@nokia.com> > >> > >> > >> > >> A new version of I-D, draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > >> has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the > >> IETF repository. > >> > >> Name: draft-xyx-5gip-ps > >> Revision: 01 > >> Title: 5G IP Access and Session Management Protocols > >> Document date: 2017-05-22 > >> Group: Individual Submission > >> Pages: 14 > >> URL: > >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xyx-5gip-ps/ > >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01 > >> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01 > >> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01 > >> > >> Abstract: > >> This document builds upon 5G IP issues work and - based on a > >> simplified 5G system architecture - attempts to make the case for a > >> possible set of new protocols that need to be developed to be used > >> among various virtualized functions in a 5G network. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >> submission > >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >> > >> The IETF Secretariat > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 5gangip mailing list > >> 5gangip@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 5gangip mailing list > > 5gangip@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip > > > > _______________________________________________ > 5gangip mailing list > 5gangip@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip >
- [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Dirk.von-Hugo
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Ca By
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… d.lake
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Ca By
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… d.lake
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Dirk.von-Hugo
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Ca By
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… d.lake
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Saleem Bhatti
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Saleem Bhatti
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Uma Chunduri
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Saleem Bhatti
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Ca By
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for dr… Behcet Sarikaya