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Re: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project

David Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk> Thu, 23 February 2023 17:40 UTC

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From: David Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
CC: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>, Giles Heron <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "6gip@ietf.org" <6gip@ietf.org>, Sridhar Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project
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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:39:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project
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<DL> In-line </DL>

From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 17:26
To: Lake, David (PG/R - Comp Sci & Elec Eng) <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>
Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>, Giles Heron <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, 6gip@ietf.org <6gip@ietf.org>, Sridhar Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project


Le 23/02/2023 à 16:14, David Lake a écrit :
[...]
>> Of course WhatsApp will work as you switch from 802.11 to LTE and
>> back but just as the default bearer in LTE has no QoS, current
>> 802.11 (other than WiFi6) has no concept of RF capabilities.
>
> Will it work?  Is one sure?  I have strong doubts that my whatsapp
> phone call will not break if I turn off the WiFi access point and
> handover to a 4G network.
>
> The discussion of glitches - is in addition to that first point.
>
> If we agree that the whatsapp phone call breaks when moving from WiFi
> to 4G, then we can see about the glitches too.
>
> By 'break' I mean 'hanged' (like when the person at the other end of
> the phone line has hanged the phone and I need to dial up again).
>
> <DL> In telecoms terminology ‘cleared down.’ No – that does NOT
> happen. I regularly have WhatsApp sessions that move between 802.11
> and WiFi multiple times.

Clarification request: do you mean a move between 802.11 and WiFi?
These are approximately the same, and I wouldnt expect breakage there.

<DL> No – I meant between LTE and 802.11 (apologies) for WhatsApp.  It works all the time for me.

[Now what would be REALLY nice is if I could have an E.164 dialer on WhatsApp (both ways) so that I could call anyone from anywhere provided the underlying protocol was the same.  That is the goal of the IETF and that is what I think we should be working on.  And if we could include a method for getting WhatsApp media over the GBR EPS just as VoLTE does, that would really start to separate out 3GPP architectures and give me choice as a consumer]

</DL>


But a move between WiFi and LTE would be different - I would expect
breakage of ongoing audio calls there.

Alex


> Likewise I have calls on VoLTE that move between ePDG (VoWiFi) and
> cell (VoLTE) all the time without breaking (although not all
> operators support that feature.  </DL>
>
>
>
> If we dont agree about that breakage, then the discussion about
> glitches is different.
>
> Alex PS: I read the text below, I will see later.
>
>
>>
>> And even with WiFi6, who determines which packets travel on the
>> robust modulation items?  You’d just end up with everything being
>> marked ‘high-priority’ and there would be much less bandwidth to
>> share – self-defeating.
>>
>> And be VERY careful what you mean by ‘break.’  This is down to the
>>  use case – if I’m accompanying a singer/soloist over an LTE
>> service (which I often do), then what is important for me is utter
>> stability – jitter, lost packets or changes of codec are an utter
>> nightmare because my brain is already very busy reading music,
>> playing the piano.  I really don’t have many more cycles left to
>> second-guess that lost note or slight change in tempo introduced by
>> a bit of packet buffering.  In that case, actually VoLTE is very,
>> very good.
>>
>> But if I’m talking to someone where 30% of speech is silence and
>> the brain is excellent at in-filling words then the occasional
>> glitch on VoIP services such as WhatsApp is probably acceptable
>> (although for me, very annoying!) </DL>
>>
>>
>>
>> For VoLTE I cant do any of these immediately obvious steps.
>>
>> But I can agree with you, based on trust, that probably VoLTE is a
>>  great performing tool.
>>
>> <DL> It is and I think we would be churlish to think it is anything
>>  but. What I think we need in future 6G networks is a
>> domain-independent way of extending the concept of SLAs that is
>> implied by IMS across the whole of the Internet so that we offer
>> differentiated services both for technical and commercial reasons.
>>  But we need to do that in an inter-operable and open manner, not
>> the closed-world of 3GPP, IMvHO. </DL>
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>
>>>
>> *From:* Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2023 9:12:36 AM *To:* Sridhar
>>> Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com> *Cc:* Hesham ElBakoury
>>> <helbakoury@gmail.com>; Lake, David (PG/R - Comp Sci & Elec Eng)
>>>  <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>; Giles Heron
>>> <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Toerless Eckert
>>> <tte@cs.fau.de>; 6gip@ietf.org <6gip@ietf.org> *Subject:* Re:
>>> [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project For the traffic class
>>> mutability: the routers in an xGPP (3GPP) network are all under
>>> the same authority. This means that that authority can easily
>>> configure all intermediary routers to not touch on the traffic
>>> class.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> Le 23/02/2023 à 05:00, Sridhar Bhaskaran a écrit :
>>>>> Are there proposals to replace GTP?
>>>>
>>>> <SB> See 3GPP TR 29.892 -
>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wk9V9QeDKfSDEoi1t8P0UyW8Q33xrXrjIxhRmvqWkVs%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
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>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>
>
>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
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>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
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> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
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<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>> SRv6 was proposed and the outcome of the study is in this TR.
>>>> After this IETF DMM worked on this draft independently -
>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>
>
>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>
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> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
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<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I can say that QoS can also be done with flow labels and
>>>>> traffic
>>>>>
>>>> classes
>>>>> in IPv6 headers, without GTP.
>>>> <SB> Flow labels and traffic classes can be changed by on path
>>>> IP devices (routers etc). 3GPP endpoints require an unmodified
>>>> flow identifier. That is why they keep the flow identifier in
>>>> additional layer of encapsulation (i.e in GTP header). The flow
>>>>  identifier marked by the first 3GPP entrypoint gateway (UPF)
>>>> is kept all the way upto radio network in the downlink
>>>> direction so that, radio network can directly use that as index
>>>> to look up the resource allocation scheme / scheduler and RRM
>>>> details. For certain services like voice media (which is marked
>>>> by QOS flow identifier corresponding to QCI/5QI 1), mission
>>>> critical services (QFI --> 5QI --> 69) etc, strict SLAs are
>>>> there. Network cant afford to let on path routers meddle with
>>>> QoS flow markers.
>>>>
>>>> Regards Sridhar On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:16 AM Alexandre
>>>> Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>>
>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 22/02/2023 à 19:43, Hesham ElBakoury a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I can try to find that out.  I remember some relatively recent
>>>>  presentations at IETF about replacing GTP, or reducing the
>>>> number of headers.  It might have been in the (precursor?) of
>>>> the DMM WG. (distributed mobility mgmt).
>>>>
>>>> A related question, IMHO, would be too whether there is an RFC
>>>>  for GTP in a first place...
>>>>
>>>> I can remember an Internet Draft of year 2000 about GTP - named
>>>>  simply draft-casati-gtp - but it was not pursued at IETF.
>>>>
>>>> If there were a GTP RFC, then we could think about improving
>>>> it, replacing it, etc.
>>>>
>>>> When there is no GTP RFC, one can think about what should an
>>>> ideal xGPP (3GPP) network use instead.
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe another way...
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>> Hesham
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:39 AM Alexandre Petrescu
>>>>> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> David, Giles,
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 22/02/2023 à 14:35, David Lake a écrit :
>>>>>> This:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “…the 5G UPF terminates the GTP tunnel but also does QoS,
>>>> charging,
>>>>>> lawful intercept etc. ”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> … is a VERY important point.  GTP enables a number of very
>>>> low-level
>>>>>> RF features which MNOs need to control their allocation of
>>>> spectrum
>>>>>> and more importantly the numerology associated with an
>>>> application.
>>>>>> It is also used in shared solutions such a CoMP.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can agree with the importance of the point above.  I can
>>>> agree about
>>>>> improvements there might be necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can say that QoS can also be done with flow labels and
>>>> traffic classes
>>>>> in IPv6 headers, without GTP.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But I agree with the importance of the topic.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If we are to replace GTP (and I think there is a reason to
>>>> do that)
>>>>>> we have to provide the interactions to the layer 1 that
>>>> MNOs need.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree.
>>>>>
>>>>> [...] Giles said:
>>>>>> I’m not sure that your electricity analysis is correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doing e.g. an MPLS exact match lookup across a FIB with a
>>>>>> few thousand labels rather than an IPv6 longest-match
>>>>>> lookup
>>>> across a FIB
>>>>>> with a few million prefixes, for example, may well more
>>>> than offset
>>>>>> the extra electricity consumption caused by the extra 4
>>>> bytes of
>>>>>> header.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then of course there’s all the electricity consumed by
>>>>>>  the control plane updates hitting the router CPUs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can agree.  But I do not take that as an invitation to
>>>>> ignore electricity consumption.  Rather, all points you
>>>>> mention
>>>> (exact match
>>>>> lookup consumption, ctl plane) should be measured and told
>>>> who consumes
>>>>> more, and then decide what to reduce.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not take your remark as giving up electricity savings
>>>>> in
>>>> front of
>>>>> too much complexity of understanding what's happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not take your remark as freedom to add more headers
>>>>> when
>>>> it becomes
>>>>> necessary to add more functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> More details about this performance degradation can be
>>>> provided if
>>>>>>> absolutely necessary, but some times trust might also
>>>> help for a
>>>>>>> quicker understanding towards realizing a common goal.
>>>>>>> (the development of trust is another matter that we can
>>>>>>> discuss separately :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trust takes time to earn, and I’d tend to suggest that
>>>> arguing that
>>>>>> it makes sense to inject a host route for a UE into OSPF
>>>> may not be
>>>>>> the best way to earn it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given this apparent disparate understanding about routing -
>>>> you seem to
>>>>> be more people to be saying the contrary of what I say - I
>>>> give up this
>>>>> topic discussion on host based routes.  Maybe for later for
>>>> another G,
>>>>> maybe never.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 6gip mailing list 6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 6gip mailing list 6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>>
>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>
>
>>>>
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>
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> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- o__ _>  /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a
>>>>  healthier life and cleaner world! :)
>>>>
>>>> Sridhar Bhaskaran
>>>>
>>
>

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