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Re: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project

Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Thu, 23 February 2023 18:03 UTC

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To: David Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>
Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>, Giles Heron <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "6gip@ietf.org" <6gip@ietf.org>, Sridhar Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com>
References: <20AC1ED3-1548-4AE2-B09C-70340B114A26@gmail.com> <4BE47593-D44B-4D2D-8403-E113B8CC50D0@layerfree.net> <DBAPR06MB68556D55FE112DC8301AE99BB5AA9@DBAPR06MB6855.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <b3cfcdf5-e020-0f11-4ef1-641f3ef63d97@gmail.com> <CAFvDQ9r9O==3=SmO0eTq8Wwx62JPK2vCuQoyOgw1MTYO3Z9f3g@mail.gmail.com> <22fcd717-fd31-c5ae-7da1-ca9e4ffab47b@gmail.com> <CA+3a8OZ+2THHDV-oe0QcS+PheV9thptKUN7DC0jmskykOaxAxg@mail.gmail.com> <5aeaa5ac-6a5c-b60d-82f9-3ae4d1e4ba1d@gmail.com> <DBAPR06MB6855B27D1E39C4CD57439025B5AB9@DBAPR06MB6855.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <10ec5cee-986d-f0af-5ced-e6742ea7842f@gmail.com> <DBAPR06MB685586C0D2A61355D9BA630DB5AB9@DBAPR06MB6855.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <c2033d4c-12c7-938f-522f-139209a47e05@gmail.com> <DBAPR06MB68551ED8B6354B9C232EA9BDB5AB9@DBAPR06MB6855.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <bbfddc82-9d28-4c85-c463-8585c40a957d@gmail.com> <DBAPR06MB685584E059EB01BD4522C3A6B5AB9@DBAPR06MB6855.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project
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Le 23/02/2023 à 18:39, David Lake a écrit :
> <DL> In-line </DL>
> 
> *From: *Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> *Date: 
> *Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 17:26 *To: *Lake, David (PG/R - Comp 
> Sci & Elec Eng) <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk> *Cc: *Hesham ElBakoury 
> <helbakoury@gmail.com>, Giles Heron 
> <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert 
> <tte@cs.fau.de>, 6gip@ietf.org <6gip@ietf.org>, Sridhar Bhaskaran 
> <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [6gip] IP Address 
> Mobility Project
> 
> 
> 
> Le 23/02/2023 à 16:14, David Lake a écrit : [...]
>>> Of course WhatsApp will work as you switch from 802.11 to LTE
>>> and back but just as the default bearer in LTE has no QoS,
>>> current 802.11 (other than WiFi6) has no concept of RF
>>> capabilities.
>> 
>> Will it work?  Is one sure?  I have strong doubts that my whatsapp
>>  phone call will not break if I turn off the WiFi access point and
>>  handover to a 4G network.
>> 
>> The discussion of glitches - is in addition to that first point.
>> 
>> If we agree that the whatsapp phone call breaks when moving from 
>> WiFi to 4G, then we can see about the glitches too.
>> 
>> By 'break' I mean 'hanged' (like when the person at the other end 
>> of the phone line has hanged the phone and I need to dial up 
>> again).
>> 
>> <DL> In telecoms terminology ‘cleared down.’ No – that does NOT 
>> happen. I regularly have WhatsApp sessions that move between 802.11
>> and WiFi multiple times.
> 
> Clarification request: do you mean a move between 802.11 and WiFi? 
> These are approximately the same, and I wouldnt expect breakage 
> there.
> 
> <DL> No – I meant between LTE and 802.11 (apologies) for WhatsApp. It
> works all the time for me.

Thanks for the clarification.

So I just tried it myself too.

I performed several handovers WiFi-4G on the smartphone, with an ongoing
whatsapp audio call.

The best it happens is no interruption in the audio.

Sometimes there are about 2 seconds of loss of voice during handover,
and then reconnects and becomes normal.

The worst it happens is that the reconnexion trials fail and it hangs up
with a message on the screen.

Following this situation it is easy to formulate requirements.

In an ideal situation there must be no loss of voice during a handover
between WiFi and LTE, be that while the two interfaces are up
simultaneously during handover, or when they are up-down distinctively
without pause in between, or with a pause from when an interface goes
down to another goes up. (the pause tolerance should be in the order of
minutes, or variable, depends on app).

In no case should the app tell that the communication is hanged and
require the user to restart it.

These are requirements.

These requirements can be compared to the LISP app on the smartphone, etc.

I mean, if other people, like you apprpeciate that there is no whatsapp
breakage while I think it does, and if these other people are the LISP
people - is LISP helping with the requirements I put above?

More simply put: if whatsapp doesnt break (as you think) during
handovers, then why adding a LISP app to it?

If we put there a LISP app, will that 2-3 seconds interruption in
whatsapp call, that I am the only one to seem to notice, disappear
entirely?  Or will that loss be shortened somehow?  Or lengthened?

> [Now what would be REALLY nice is if I could have an E.164 dialer on 
> WhatsApp (both ways) so that I could call anyone from anywhere 
> provided the underlying protocol was the same.

True, that is an additional requirement: make whatsapp able to call
fixed landlines too, not just mobiles, as currently does.

Or maybe you meant something else with that E.164 that I dont quite
understand.

> That is the goal of the IETF and that is what I think we should be 
> working on.  And if we could include a method for getting WhatsApp 
> media over the GBR EPS just as VoLTE does, that would really start
> to separate out 3GPP architectures and give me choice as a consumer]

Sounds interesting.  It should be set apart in our list of potential
work items here in this group.

Alex

> 
> </DL>
> 
> 
> 
> But a move between WiFi and LTE would be different - I would expect 
> breakage of ongoing audio calls there.
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
>> Likewise I have calls on VoLTE that move between ePDG (VoWiFi) and
>>  cell (VoLTE) all the time without breaking (although not all 
>> operators support that feature.  </DL>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If we dont agree about that breakage, then the discussion about 
>> glitches is different.
>> 
>> Alex PS: I read the text below, I will see later.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> And even with WiFi6, who determines which packets travel on the 
>>> robust modulation items?  You’d just end up with everything
>>> being marked ‘high-priority’ and there would be much less
>>> bandwidth to share – self-defeating.
>>> 
>>> And be VERY careful what you mean by ‘break.’  This is down to 
>>> the use case – if I’m accompanying a singer/soloist over an LTE 
>>> service (which I often do), then what is important for me is 
>>> utter stability – jitter, lost packets or changes of codec are
>>> an utter nightmare because my brain is already very busy reading 
>>> music, playing the piano.  I really don’t have many more cycles 
>>> left to second-guess that lost note or slight change in tempo 
>>> introduced by a bit of packet buffering.  In that case, actually 
>>> VoLTE is very, very good.
>>> 
>>> But if I’m talking to someone where 30% of speech is silence and
>>>  the brain is excellent at in-filling words then the occasional 
>>> glitch on VoIP services such as WhatsApp is probably acceptable 
>>> (although for me, very annoying!) </DL>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For VoLTE I cant do any of these immediately obvious steps.
>>> 
>>> But I can agree with you, based on trust, that probably VoLTE is 
>>> a great performing tool.
>>> 
>>> <DL> It is and I think we would be churlish to think it is 
>>> anything but. What I think we need in future 6G networks is a 
>>> domain-independent way of extending the concept of SLAs that is 
>>> implied by IMS across the whole of the Internet so that we offer 
>>> differentiated services both for technical and commercial 
>>> reasons. But we need to do that in an inter-operable and open 
>>> manner, not the closed-world of 3GPP, IMvHO. </DL>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alex
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Outlook for iOS 
>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q7qV69%2Bzar8F2yBQw%2B%2FLpAFw2bWCws5wAOn9HHpA26s%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q7qV69%2Bzar8F2yBQw%2B%2FLpAFw2bWCws5wAOn9HHpA26s%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q7qV69%2Bzar8F2yBQw%2B%2FLpAFw2bWCws5wAOn9HHpA26s%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q7qV69%2Bzar8F2yBQw%2B%2FLpAFw2bWCws5wAOn9HHpA26s%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>>> 
>>> *From:* Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2023 9:12:36 AM *To:* Sridhar 
>>>> Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com> *Cc:* Hesham ElBakoury 
>>>> <helbakoury@gmail.com>; Lake, David (PG/R - Comp Sci & Elec 
>>>> Eng) <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>; Giles Heron 
>>>> <giles=40layerfree.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Toerless Eckert 
>>>> <tte@cs.fau.de>; 6gip@ietf.org <6gip@ietf.org> *Subject:* Re: 
>>>> [6gip] IP Address Mobility Project For the traffic class 
>>>> mutability: the routers in an xGPP (3GPP) network are all
>>>> under the same authority. This means that that authority can
>>>> easily configure all intermediary routers to not touch on the
>>>> traffic class.
>>>> 
>>>> Alex
>>>> 
>>>> Le 23/02/2023 à 05:00, Sridhar Bhaskaran a écrit :
>>>>>> Are there proposals to replace GTP?
>>>>> 
>>>>> <SB> See 3GPP TR 29.892 - 
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wk9V9QeDKfSDEoi1t8P0UyW8Q33xrXrjIxhRmvqWkVs%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086552114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wk9V9QeDKfSDEoi1t8P0UyW8Q33xrXrjIxhRmvqWkVs%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
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>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3gpp.org%2Fftp%2FSpecs%2Farchive%2F29_series%2F29.892%2F29892-g00.zip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G8%2BSjqw7plj26kFe1jJEtCnWruZCgk5RjuGB5fqJWkM%3D&reserved=0>>>>>
>>>>> SRv6 was proposed and the outcome of the study is in this
>>>>> TR. After this IETF DMM worked on this draft independently -
>>>>>  
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lUNKQQh2dFkToYykbNMxw%2F%2FfkFK4ThcMCuoDOoSle1E%3D&reserved=0>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can say that QoS can also be done with flow labels and 
>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>> 
>>>>> classes
>>>>>> in IPv6 headers, without GTP.
>>>>> <SB> Flow labels and traffic classes can be changed by on 
>>>>> path IP devices (routers etc). 3GPP endpoints require an 
>>>>> unmodified flow identifier. That is why they keep the flow 
>>>>> identifier in additional layer of encapsulation (i.e in GTP 
>>>>> header). The flow identifier marked by the first 3GPP 
>>>>> entrypoint gateway (UPF) is kept all the way upto radio 
>>>>> network in the downlink direction so that, radio network can 
>>>>> directly use that as index to look up the resource
>>>>> allocation scheme / scheduler and RRM details. For certain
>>>>> services like voice media (which is marked by QOS flow
>>>>> identifier corresponding to QCI/5QI 1), mission critical
>>>>> services (QFI --> 5QI --> 69) etc, strict SLAs are there.
>>>>> Network cant afford to let on path routers meddle with QoS
>>>>> flow markers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards Sridhar On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:16 AM Alexandre 
>>>>> Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Le 22/02/2023 à 19:43, Hesham ElBakoury a écrit :
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can try to find that out.  I remember some relatively 
>>>>> recent presentations at IETF about replacing GTP, or
>>>>> reducing the number of headers.  It might have been in the 
>>>>> (precursor?) of the DMM WG. (distributed mobility mgmt).
>>>>> 
>>>>> A related question, IMHO, would be too whether there is an 
>>>>> RFC for GTP in a first place...
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can remember an Internet Draft of year 2000 about GTP - 
>>>>> named simply draft-casati-gtp - but it was not pursued at 
>>>>> IETF.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If there were a GTP RFC, then we could think about improving
>>>>>  it, replacing it, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When there is no GTP RFC, one can think about what should an 
>>>>> ideal xGPP (3GPP) network use instead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or maybe another way...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alex
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hesham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:39 AM Alexandre Petrescu 
>>>>>> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
>> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David, Giles,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Le 22/02/2023 à 14:35, David Lake a écrit :
>>>>>>> This:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “…the 5G UPF terminates the GTP tunnel but also does 
>>>>>>> QoS,
>>>>> charging,
>>>>>>> lawful intercept etc. ”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> … is a VERY important point.  GTP enables a number of 
>>>>>>> very
>>>>> low-level
>>>>>>> RF features which MNOs need to control their allocation 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>> spectrum
>>>>>>> and more importantly the numerology associated with an
>>>>> application.
>>>>>>> It is also used in shared solutions such a CoMP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can agree with the importance of the point above.  I can
>>>>> agree about
>>>>>> improvements there might be necessary.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can say that QoS can also be done with flow labels and
>>>>> traffic classes
>>>>>> in IPv6 headers, without GTP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> But I agree with the importance of the topic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If we are to replace GTP (and I think there is a reason 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>> do that)
>>>>>>> we have to provide the interactions to the layer 1 that
>>>>> MNOs need.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [...] Giles said:
>>>>>>> I’m not sure that your electricity analysis is correct.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Doing e.g. an MPLS exact match lookup across a FIB with
>>>>>>> a few thousand labels rather than an IPv6 longest-match 
>>>>>>> lookup
>>>>> across a FIB
>>>>>>> with a few million prefixes, for example, may well more
>>>>> than offset
>>>>>>> the extra electricity consumption caused by the extra 4
>>>>> bytes of
>>>>>>> header.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And then of course there’s all the electricity consumed 
>>>>>>> by the control plane updates hitting the router CPUs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can agree.  But I do not take that as an invitation to 
>>>>>> ignore electricity consumption.  Rather, all points you 
>>>>>> mention
>>>>> (exact match
>>>>>> lookup consumption, ctl plane) should be measured and told
>>>>> who consumes
>>>>>> more, and then decide what to reduce.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do not take your remark as giving up electricity savings
>>>>>>  in
>>>>> front of
>>>>>> too much complexity of understanding what's happening.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do not take your remark as freedom to add more headers 
>>>>>> when
>>>>> it becomes
>>>>>> necessary to add more functionality.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> More details about this performance degradation can be
>>>>> provided if
>>>>>>>> absolutely necessary, but some times trust might also
>>>>> help for a
>>>>>>>> quicker understanding towards realizing a common goal.
>>>>>>>>  (the development of trust is another matter that we 
>>>>>>>> can discuss separately :-)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Trust takes time to earn, and I’d tend to suggest that
>>>>> arguing that
>>>>>>> it makes sense to inject a host route for a UE into OSPF
>>>>> may not be
>>>>>>> the best way to earn it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Given this apparent disparate understanding about routing 
>>>>>> -
>>>>> you seem to
>>>>>> be more people to be saying the contrary of what I say - I
>>>>> give up this
>>>>>> topic discussion on host based routes.  Maybe for later 
>>>>>> for
>>>>> another G,
>>>>>> maybe never.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 6gip mailing list 6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>>> 
>>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086708906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fbc%2Balk3qI%2Bf8qAtZNRNIDK%2Fyz8CWxrKUs7Loc0pnoY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 6gip mailing list 6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org 
>>>>> <mailto:6gip@ietf.org <mailto:6gip@ietf.org>>>>> 
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0 
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F6gip&data=05%7C01%7Cd.lake%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cb5d877729164418852fa08db15c32317%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C1%7C638127700086864547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=W7DAvDFSycMUZ5z%2FbVBJuFxLsdvD%2BXc9rt28pBBBLMY%3D&reserved=0>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- o__ _>  /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to 
>>>>> a healthier life and cleaner world! :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sridhar Bhaskaran
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>

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