Re: [apps-discuss] RFC 5785: Registration of .well-known services under HTTP to First Come

Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Sat, 16 January 2016 18:48 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2231A9036 for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1RtHD3V-ox9C for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com (mail-pa0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5F781A9030 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pa0-x232.google.com with SMTP id yy13so318765775pab.3 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:51 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type; bh=FTqU0Zi5XKImbD1emWhLMjJrc7R4d6DUZRFNBKuw4F4=; b=VAEnyqQlPV5/qt3OahABRXGYelJ1TGl/+tmUabuI1oXgTDWnVLM+oH6UbZT/D9khZg Jvrlwn8jrn/3B8EkqhrvT7Yo48iOrLC+zpKdR77NDBssvsA2llObC9Hp4GwP583pemB6 /YkHq0WN/gUZXlKV38f3tIm5JVKN+/1IWUvOKrrEFBQFKlhAj40Gh7B85r+qKphgYq6T 4Yuh/wegvwsF2OK+yrCdW3M1rWnyHkTrZ56WpxAsW8KpfCFbsWp78LzRLZkrgIU500aH sB0FHfZZ7vUDNWb3wtKqgZhiq4wGJBIHYNOpjKr43IydG/QBNVGXbkARoujQKztLK/c7 fzmQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=FTqU0Zi5XKImbD1emWhLMjJrc7R4d6DUZRFNBKuw4F4=; b=b98W9EV4PkG0ZyKlMT8DQV6lU4ze9AYJwocSQmcQ3w47GcyMadG/ZFHHBNh3o3ml7u LE602Ma/MRgXcziuCK0E/FCJDrpiiuZ7C8aK93Q9rxFFeW38uJ2/wLpKQoVp376ezOdC +No7SH+XqYjbe/os0EM6Mk6J2VL+LE4iFJWGFm+YsM2IYkjSOQbbYsf3VaZ6DIhVN6rt 3hILPlKa7w0fCISyFKRChREe/039/5DyKaDGQS8m2riJbuMx9IjEdaS5//E4AqVh8M+g HrwtU5lLN8pS9h2YXfHGdtmwaC2JklFDuBCAJtV80fOz3/Ctfx1l/OfV2tyaVh+ESWA0 qj5Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmHOE4QgIJdJKyM/QA8caEFenxEd3kT7M498ocBy5Q/bDrFPLqHe23WzsW/CkG41YuAMWnIbG3KegGv/ykvHWaPTMp9og==
X-Received: by 10.66.220.170 with SMTP id px10mr24411331pac.145.1452970131608; Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.outlook.com (ec2-52-24-139-88.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com. [52.24.139.88]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id by2sm23461270pab.6.2016.01.16.10.48.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:48:48 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 18:48:47 +0000
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: apps-discuss@ietf.org, Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au>
Message-ID: <994C5976EA09B556.00059E8E-F27D-40AE-A32D-879C0AFA1A19@mail.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CACweHNAAjoZ-FCV2vqD5kwmaD893OpGfJ+b+FOXjuDYW68f4Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMm+Lwj=A+KbxOvxFrURZmTmYJuGD3rXvnRToLZ_L+v-Qv_L_w@mail.gmail.com> <F87BF4D5-98EB-4476-B07B-969BEF842EE2@mnot.net> <CAMm+LwiT+bATrwK4guD6qtqPBDiOkXqUeF4+jjLJoP5TYqi3_w@mail.gmail.com> <E5435AB2-4830-4C08-AC3D-AE1FB6E66C53@mnot.net> <5697B833.3000703@cisco.com> <CAMm+LwiDJXwqMXmNcksTJeh0sn6_rvsGdnGu6-KtDcdGy1Wbvg@mail.gmail.com> <007301d14fa8$05d15540$1173ffc0$@gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwgw+p+Eqagf1Uio+wQjLnz_KRj4nmraLRH7PA5Cwa=yvw@mail.gmail.com> <CACweHNAAjoZ-FCV2vqD5kwmaD893OpGfJ+b+FOXjuDYW68f4Jg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24506_1904755024.1452970127701"
X-Mailer: Outlook for iOS and Android
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/apps-discuss/MI5hu-gD1zdkhE8zFM4vRUj2lWU>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 01:54:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] RFC 5785: Registration of .well-known services under HTTP to First Come
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/apps-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 18:48:54 -0000


Sent from Outlook Mobile

    _____________________________
From: Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] RFC 5785: Registration of .well-known services under HTTP to First Come
To:  <apps-discuss@ietf.org>


    

I'm not quoting any previous discussion, I just want to make an observation: wasn't .well-known acknowledged to be an anti-pattern when it was set up? And isn't the DE role therefore to turn proposals away which would be better served by a (positive) pattern elsewhere, along with that explanation?   

The bar for .well-known should be very high because http != gopher, nor should it ever be.  
No, it was asserted but never conceded. More importantly, the IETF reviewed and agreed the RFC which makes no mention of such a position. The position of DE is not meant to be an opportunity to impose a private view of Internet architecture on anyone. It certainly isn't an opportunity to tell people that they should 'do it my way' and especially not when that turns out to be implement someone's 20 year old thesis.I am well aware of the style of architecture that people are suggesting it is the role of the DE to impose. It is a style that I played as much of a part in creating as anyone else did. It is a style that I have used and have since abandoned because I think other approaches are better.