Re: [auth48] AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9544 <draft-ietf-ippm-pam-09> for your review

[Rebecca VanRheenen <[e-mail]>]

Hi authors,

Thank you all for your replies! We have updated the document accordingly (see list of updated files below) and have a few followup questions:


1) There were several suggestions in response to this question (listed below). Please discuss and let us know how to update.

>> 7) <!-- [rfced] Please confirm that "referred to for" is correct. Or should this
>> be updated to "referred to", "referred for", or something else?
>> 
>> Original:
>>    The monitoring of performance parameters to determine the quality of
>>    an interval is performed between the elements of the network that are
>>    referred to for the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter.

Greg:
> I think that it should be "referred to". 

Joel:
> If I am reading item 7 correctly, I think that is “referred to by”.  I can live with many forms, but I think “between the elements of the network that are referred to the SLO” will cause many people reading difficulty.

John:
> #7: I think that "between the elements of the network that are referred to for
>       the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter" is incorrect.
>       The SLO defines both the metric and where the metric is measured.
>       The SLO does not "refer" to anything.
>       Hence, I would instead say: "between the elements of the network that
>       are defined by the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter."


2)

>> 11) <!-- [rfced] May we change the first bulleted list in Sections 3.1 and all
>> the bulleted lists in Section 3.2 to definition lists? See
>> https://authors.ietf.org/en/rfcxml-vocabulary#dl.
>> 
>> One example:
>> 
>> Current:
>>    *  VI is a time interval during which at least one of the performance
>>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal level
>>       threshold.
>> 
>>    *  SVI is a time interval during which at least one of the
>>       performance parameters degraded below its configurable critical
>>       threshold.
>> 
>>    *  Consequently, VFI is a time interval during which all performance
>>       parameters are at or better than their respective pre-defined
>>       optimal levels.
>> 
>> Perhaps:
>>    VI: A time interval during which at least one of the performance
>>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal level
>>       threshold.
>> 
>>    SVI: A time interval during which at least one of the
>>       performance parameters degraded below its configurable critical
>>       threshold.
>> 
>>    VFI: A time interval during which all performance
>>       parameters are at or better than their respective pre-defined
>>       optimal levels.
> 
> GIM>> I slightly prefer the current format, but I can live with the update. 
> —>

We did not make any changes here, per your preference.


3) 

>> a) We see both of the following as the expansion for PAM. 
>> 
>>   Precision Availability Metric (1 instance)
>>   Precision Availability Metrics (8 instances)
>> 
>> We updated to use the latter form (i.e., the form with "Metrics"). Please let
>> us know any objections.
> GIM>> Thank you for the question. I think that the use of singular, i.e., "Metric", in Acronyms is valid. Consequently, all acronyms in the document, in my opinion, should be changed to "PAMs".

We updated PAM to PAMs in all instances except the following (when used as an adjective). In a few instances, we also updated verbs from singular to plural when “PAMs" is used as a subject, so please review those for correctness.

Current (“PAM” as adjective):
   3.3.  PAM Configuration Settings and Service Availability

   5.  Other Expected PAM Benefits

   … per some predefined PAM settings.

   … of PAM-related settings.


4) 

>> d) FYI - We have added an expansion for the following abbreviation
>> per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review each
>> expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness.
>> 
>>   IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

Greg:
> It seems that IPFIX is used only one time in the document. Do you think that the expanded form without the acronym is sufficient? I'm okay with any form.

John:
> #17d: I would rather spell out IPFIX (since it is only used once) but am also ok with adding it to the list of abbreviations.

We chose to add this to the list of abbreviations as suggested by John. Omitting the acronym might make the sentence a bit harder to read because of the two instances of “Information”. Please let us know any concerns.

Text without acronym:
   *  A set of IP Flow Information Export Information Elements
      will allow PAM ...


5) Would you like to alphabetize the acronyms in Section 2.2, or do you prefer the current order? The current ordering seems to be intentional (similar terms grouped together), but we want to check after adding IPFIX to the end of the list.

_______________

Updated XML file:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544.xml

Updated output files:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544.txt
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544.pdf
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544.html

Diff file showing all changes made during AUTH48:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544-auth48diff.html

Diff files showing all changes:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544-diff.html
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544-rfcdiff.html (side-by-side diff)
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9544-alt-diff.html(diff showing changes where text is moved or deleted)

Note that it may be necessary for you to refresh your browser to view the most recent version. 

For the AUTH48 status of this document, please see:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9544

Thank you,

RFC Editor/rv



> On Feb 19, 2024, at 9:44 PM, John Strassner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> MY comments are as follows:
> YES with no additional comments to what Greg made: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11,12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 (a and b and c), 18, 19
> 
> #3: YES, but I do not like changing "or" to "nor"
> 
> #17d: I would rather spell out IPFIX (since it is only used once) but am also ok with adding it to the list of abbreviations.
> 
> #7: I think that "between the elements of the network that are referred to for
>       the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter" is incorrect.
>       The SLO defines both the metric and where the metric is measured.
>       The SLO does not "refer" to anything.
>       Hence, I would instead say: "between the elements of the network that
>       are defined by the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter."
> 
> On Feb 15, 2024, at 5:34 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> 
> 
> *****IMPORTANT*****
> 
> Updated 2024/02/15
> 
> RFC Author(s):
> --------------
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> — OR —
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> 
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> old text
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> 
> best regards,
> John
> 
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 8:04 PM Joel Halpern <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I can live with all the changes as proposed.
> 
>  
> 
> If I am reading item 7 correctly, I think that is “referred to by”.  I can live with many forms, but I think “between the elements of the network that are referred to the SLO” will cause many people reading difficulty.
> 
> Yours,
> Joel
> 
>  
> 
> From: Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]> 
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 8:45 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: Joel Halpern <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9544 <draft-ietf-ippm-pam-09> for your review
> 
>  
> 
> Dear RFC Editor,
> 
> thank you for your thoughtful proposals helping in improving the document. Please find my responses and notes below tagged GIM>>.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 5:39 PM <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Authors,
> 
> While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) the following questions, which are also in the XML file.
> 
> 
> 1) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We updated the abbreviated title (appears in the center of
> the running header in the pdf output) to more closely align with the
> document title. Please let us know any objections.
> 
> Original:
>    Framework of PAM
> 
> Current:
>    PAM for Services Governed by SLOs
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the update with a minor modification
> 
> PAMs for Service Governed by SLOs
> 
> I've looked at the title itself and wanted to ask you and the co-authors a question. The title introduces the SLO acronym, should the PAM acronym also be introduced in the title as
> 
>  
> 
>  Precision Availability Metrics (PAMs) for Services Governed by Service Level Objectives (SLOs) 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 2) <!-- [rfced] How may we update the text after the comma to improve clarity?
> 
> Original:
>    Hence it is not sufficient to measure service levels
>    per se over time, but to assess the quality of the service being
>    contextually provided (e.g., with the applicable SLO in mind).
> 
> Perhaps: 
>    Hence, it is not sufficient to measure service levels
>    per se over time; the quality of the service being
>    contextually provided (e.g., with the applicable SLO in mind) must be also assessed.
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the proposed update. It makes the text more readable. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 3) <!-- [rfced] May we update the text starting with ", and whether their
> SLOs..." as follows for to create parallel structure?
> 
> Original:
>    However, at this point, there are no standard metrics that can be
>    used to account for the quality with which services are delivered
>    relative to their SLOs, and whether their SLOs are being met at all
>    times.
> 
> Perhaps: 
>    However, at this point, there are no standard metrics that can be
>    used to account for the quality with which services are delivered
>    relative to their SLOs or to determine whether their SLOs are being met at all
>    times. 
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the proposed update that improves the text. I wonder if s/or/nor/ is acceptable in this sentence? 
> 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 4) <!-- [rfced] We see the term "Flow Record" in RFC 7011 but not in RFC 7012
> (though "flow" does appear). Please review the citations and let us know
> if any updates are needed.
> 
> Original:
>    Flow records [RFC7011] and
>    [RFC7012] maintain statistics about flows, including flow volume and
>    flow duration, but again, contain very little information about
>    service levels, let alone whether the service levels delivered meet
>    their respective targets, i.e., their associated SLOs.
> 
> GIM>> Thank you for your thoughtful question. I think that reference to RFC 7012 is justified as it refers, as you've noted, to 'Flow' and 'Flow information'. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 5) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We updated the title of Section 2 from "Conventions and
> Terminology" to "Conventions" because "Terminology" is one of the
> subsections. Please review and let us know any concerns.
> 
> Original:
>    2.  Conventions and Terminology
>      2.1. Terminology
>      2.2. Acronyms
> 
> Current:
>    2.  Conventions
>      2.1. Terminology
>      2.2. Acronyms
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the update 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 6) <!-- [rfced] Is "configurable optimal level threshold" correct here? Should
> this read "configurable optimal threshold" (i.e., no "level") or "configurable
> optimal level (i.e., no "threshold")?
> 
> Original:
>    *  VI is a time interval during which at least one of the performance
>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal level
>       threshold.
> 
> Perhaps:
>    *  VI is a time interval during which at least one of the performance
>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal 
>       threshold.
> 
> GIM>> Thank you for pointing out that "threshold" and "level" are synonyms. I slightly prefer the first option (above), but I can live with the other proposal (below)
> 
> 
> Or:
>    *  VI is a time interval during which at least one of the performance
>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal 
>       level.
> -->
> 
> 
> 7) <!-- [rfced] Please confirm that "referred to for" is correct. Or should this
> be updated to "referred to", "referred for", or something else?
> 
> Original:
>    The monitoring of performance parameters to determine the quality of
>    an interval is performed between the elements of the network that are
>    referred to for the SLO corresponding to the performance parameter.
> 
> GIM>> I think that it should be "referred to". 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 8) <!-- [rfced] How may we update "this allows distinguishing" here? 
> 
> Original:
>    For example, this allows distinguishing between cases in
>    which violated intervals are caused by isolated violation occurrences
>    (such as, a sporadic issue that may be caused by a temporary spike in
>    a queue depth along the packet's path) or by broad violations across
>    multiple packets (such as a problem with slow route convergence
>    across the network or more foundational issues such as insufficient
>    network resources).  
> 
> Perhaps ("this allows a service provider to distinguish"): 
>    For example, this allows a service provider to distinguish between cases in
>    which violated intervals are caused by isolated violation occurrences
>    (such as a sporadic issue that may be caused by a temporary spike in
>    a queue depth along the packet's path) or by broad violations across
>    multiple packets (such as a problem with slow route convergence
>    across the network or more foundational issues such as insufficient
>    network resources).
> 
> Or ("this allows for distinguishing"):
>    For example, this allows for distinguishing between cases in
>    which violated intervals are caused by isolated violation occurrences
>    (such as a sporadic issue that may be caused by a temporary spike in
>    a queue depth along the packet's path) or by broad violations across
>    multiple packets (such as a problem with slow route convergence
>    across the network or more foundational issues such as insufficient
>    network resources). 
> 
> GIM>> I slightly prefer the latter option as the act of attributing degradation to a cause could be performed by a function, not an operator. But I can live with the former option. 
> 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 9) <!-- [rfced] This sentence appears in Section 3.2 and points to Section
> 3. Should "introduced in Section 3" either be removed or updated to "introduced
> in this document"? Also, is this sentence introducing the bulleted list
> that appear after the paragraph? If so, would adding "The following" be
> helpful?
> 
> Original:
>    A set of metrics can be created based on PAM introduced in Section 3.
> 
> Perhaps (omit section pointer):
>    The following set of metrics can be created based on PAM.
> 
> Or (use "in this document" instead of section pointer):
>    The following set of metrics can be created based on PAM as introduced
>    in this document.
> 
> GIM>> I slightly prefer the latter option, but I can live with the first one. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 10) <!-- [rfced] We updated the first two bulleted lists in Section 3.2 (created
> parallel structure and removed the parentheses around sentences). Please
> review these changes in the diff file and let us know any concerns.
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the update that makes looks of lists in the document consistent.
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 11) <!-- [rfced] May we change the first bulleted list in Sections 3.1 and all
> the bulleted lists in Section 3.2 to definition lists? See
> https://authors.ietf.org/en/rfcxml-vocabulary#dl.
> 
> One example:
> 
> Current:
>    *  VI is a time interval during which at least one of the performance
>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal level
>       threshold.
> 
>    *  SVI is a time interval during which at least one of the
>       performance parameters degraded below its configurable critical
>       threshold.
> 
>    *  Consequently, VFI is a time interval during which all performance
>       parameters are at or better than their respective pre-defined
>       optimal levels.
> 
> Perhaps:
>    VI: A time interval during which at least one of the performance
>       parameters degraded below its configurable optimal level
>       threshold.
> 
>    SVI: A time interval during which at least one of the
>       performance parameters degraded below its configurable critical
>       threshold.
> 
>    VFI: A time interval during which all performance
>       parameters are at or better than their respective pre-defined
>       optimal levels.
> 
> GIM>> I slightly prefer the current format, but I can live with the update. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 12) <!-- [rfced] Should "the following section" here read "this section"? This
> sentence appears in Section 3.3; the following section is Section 4,
> which does not mention a state model.
> 
> Original:
>    While the definition of a service state model is outside the scope of
>    this document, the following section provides some considerations for
>    how such a state model and accompanying configuration settings could
>    be defined.
> 
> Perhaps:
>    While the definition of a service state model is outside the scope of
>    this document, this section provides some considerations for
>    how such a state model and accompanying configuration settings could
>    be defined.
> 
> GIM>> Thank you for your thoughtful consideration of the text. I agree with the proposed update. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 13) <!-- [rfced] Would it be helpful to update "YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF framework"
> as follows? Or do you prefer the current?
> 
> Original:
>    *  A YANG data model will allow PAM to be incorporated into
>       monitoring applications based on the YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF
>       framework.  
> 
> Perhaps:
>    *  A YANG data model will allow PAM to be incorporated into
>       monitoring applications based on the YANG, NETCONF,
>       and RESTCONF frameworks. 
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the proposed update. 
> 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 14) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We rephrased this as follows to form a complete
> sentence. The other items in the list are complete sentences. Please
> review.
> 
> Original:
>    *  The definition of the metrics that represent histograms for
>       service level parameters with buckets corresponding to individual
>       service level objectives,
> 
> Updated:
>    *  Metrics can be defined to represent histograms for
>       service-level parameters with buckets corresponding to individual
>       SLOs..
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the proposed update. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 15) <!-- [rfced] Please review "that should be maintained". Should this read "and
> should be maintained", or is the current okay? Also, please confirm that
> "violated time units" is correct here. We do not see this mentioned
> elsewhere in the document.
> 
> Original:
>    The same service levels that
>    constitute SLO violations for one flow that should be maintained as
>    part of the "violated time units" and related metrics, may be
>    compliant for another flow.  
> 
> Perhaps:
>    The same service levels that
>    constitute SLO violations for one flow and should be maintained as
>    part of the "violated time units" and related metrics may be
>    compliant for another flow. 
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the updated version. 
> 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 16) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We updated this fragment as follows to create a complete
> sentence.
> 
> Original:
>    By the same token, where the definition of what constitutes a
>    "severe" or a "significant" violation depends on configuration
>    settings or context.  
> 
> Perhaps:
>    By the same token, the definition of what constitutes a
>    "severe" or a "significant" violation depends on configuration
>    settings or context. 
> 
> GIM>> I agree with the proposed update. 
> 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 17) <!-- [rfced] Abbreviations
> 
> a) We see both of the following as the expansion for PAM. 
> 
>   Precision Availability Metric (1 instance)
>   Precision Availability Metrics (8 instances)
> 
> We updated to use the latter form (i.e., the form with "Metrics"). Please let
> us know any objections.
> 
> GIM>> Thank you for the question. I think that the use of singular, i.e., "Metric", in Acronyms is valid. Consequently, all acronyms in the document, in my opinion, should be changed to "PAMs".
> 
> 
> 
> b) We see two instances of "PAMs" in the document (see below). Since "Metrics"
> in the expansion is already plural, is the "s" needed in "PAMs"? Please
> review.
> 
> Original:
>    To indicate a historic degree of precision availability, additional
>    derived PAMs can be defined as follows:
>    ...
>    It might be useful for a service provider to determine the current
>    condition of the service for which PAMs are maintained.
> 
> GIM>> If we agree that the acronym is expanded as "Precision Availability Metric", then "PAMs" is the right form. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c) OAM appears in the list of acronyms in Section 2.2 but is not mentioned
> elsewhere in the document. May we delete this term from the list?
> 
> GIM>> Yes, please remove it. 
> 
> 
> 
> d) FYI - We have added an expansion for the following abbreviation
> per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review each
> expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness.
> 
>   IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)
> 
> GIM>> It seems that IPFIX is used only one time in the document. Do you think that the expanded form without the acronym is sufficient? I'm okay with any form.
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 18) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the online 
> Style Guide <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language>
> and let us know if any changes are needed.
> 
> Note that our script did not flag any words in particular, but this should 
> still be reviewed as a best practice.
> 
> GIM>> I agree, don't find anything that requires rewording. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> 19) <!-- [rfced] We see a number of author-inserted comments in the .xml file for
> this document. We are unsure if these have been resolved. Please review
> and let us know if these can be deleted or if they need to be addressed.
> 
> GIM>> :-) My apologies for not cleaning our workspace properly. Thank you. 
> 
> -->
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> RFC Editor/rv
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 15, 2024, at 5:34 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> 
> *****IMPORTANT*****
> 
> Updated 2024/02/15
> 
> RFC Author(s):
> --------------
> 
> Instructions for Completing AUTH48
> 
> Your document has now entered AUTH48.  Once it has been reviewed and 
> approved by you and all coauthors, it will be published as an RFC.  
> If an author is no longer available, there are several remedies 
> available as listed in the FAQ (https://www.rfc-editor.org/faq/).
> 
> You and you coauthors are responsible for engaging other parties 
> (e.g., Contributors or Working Group) as necessary before providing 
> your approval.
> 
> Planning your review 
> ---------------------
> 
> Please review the following aspects of your document:
> 
> *  RFC Editor questions
> 
>   Please review and resolve any questions raised by the RFC Editor 
>   that have been included in the XML file as comments marked as 
>   follows:
> 
>   <!-- [rfced] ... -->
> 
>   These questions will also be sent in a subsequent email.
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> --------------------------------------
> RFC9544 (draft-ietf-ippm-pam-09)
> 
> Title            : Precision Availability Metrics for Services Governed by Service Level Objectives (SLOs)
> Author(s)        : G. Mirsky, J. Halpern, X. Min, A. Clemm, J. Strassner, J. François
> WG Chair(s)      : Marcus Ihlar, Tommy Pauly
> Area Director(s) : Martin Duke, Zaheduzzaman Sarker
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> regards,
> John