Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2
Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com> Thu, 17 January 2013 16:23 UTC
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, Snigdho Bardalai <SBardalai@infinera.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Overlay model framework v2
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:23:12 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2
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Daniele, What I was saying is that the definition: > 3. Virtual Topology: Virtual topology is a collection of one or more > virtual or real provider network domain nodes that exist in the > customer layer network and are interconnected via 0 or more virtual > links. Is not correct. It should say IMO: 3. Virtual Topology: Virtual topology is a collection of one or more virtual nodes, supported by one or more provider network domains, which exist in the customer layer network and are interconnected via 0 or more virtual links, supported by one or more provider network domains -----Original Message----- From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:10 AM To: Igor Bryskin; Snigdho Bardalai; CCAMP Subject: RE: Overlay model framework v2 What you say is more than true but orthogonal to my point :-) It's only a matter of terminology. We defined: > 3. Virtual Topology: Virtual topology is a collection of one or more > virtual or real provider network domain nodes that exist in the > customer layer network and are interconnected via 0 or more virtual > links. If we call it "Virtual Topology", the first thing that comes to the minds is: its only a collection of virtual links and virtual nodes. Snigdho's proposal was to call it differently so to better identify the fact that it includes both virtual and real links/nodes, that's it. The name he proposed, however, is again misleading, because calling it "provider topology" makes me (and you) thinking of just real links/nodes, doesn't it? I would suggest not to use either of the terms as both are misleading. Maybe something like "exported topology", "CE-PE tology" or whatever. Daniele >-----Original Message----- >From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] >Sent: giovedì 17 gennaio 2013 16.29 >To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Snigdho Bardalai; CCAMP >Subject: RE: Overlay model framework v2 > >Daniele, > >We want to separate a Virtual Topology advertised to the clients (which >is, generally speaking, different for different sets of clients) from >provider real topology, which must be concealed from the clients. >I disagree with Snigdho, when he is saying that a PE just has multiple >aliases (one from each client name space). There is much more to this. >The way I see it a PE contributes differently to different Virtual >Topologies (each time with a different ID, sometimes as a whole, >sometimes as split into several VNs, sometimes as a part of a large VN, >possibly with a separate connectivity matrix. it also, depending on >Virtual Topology, presents itself as switch of a different layer >network, and so forth). Therefore, PE in the context of Virtual >Topology is always a Virtual Node, even when it is mapped 1:1 onto real >provider switch. In general, only VN can terminate a VL. > >Igor > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:53 AM >To: Snigdho Bardalai; Igor Bryskin; CCAMP >Subject: RE: Overlay model framework v2 > >Igor, Snigdho, > >I agree with Snigdho. Why don't we call it provider topology >(or whatever) if it includes both virtual links/nodes and real >links/nodes? I don't think it has anything to deal with naming space. > >Further replies in line > >I'd like to have feedbacks from you and all on Open Issue 4. >That's an advertisement models draft issue but it's something >that i can't really understand yet. > >BR >Daniele > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Snigdho Bardalai [mailto:SBardalai@infinera.com] >>Sent: giovedì 17 gennaio 2013 5.28 >>To: Igor Bryskin; Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP >>Subject: RE: Overlay model framework v2 >> >>Hi Igor, >> >>Not sure if the case you are citing qualifies a real node or >link to be >>called virtual. The client space name is simply an alias. >> >>Regards >>Snigdho >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:04 PM >>> To: Snigdho Bardalai; Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP >>> Subject: RE: Overlay model framework v2 >>> >>> Snigdho, >>> >>> > 3. Virtual Topology: Virtual topology is a collection of one or >>> > more virtual or real provider network domain nodes that exist in >>> > the customer layer network and are interconnected via 0 or more >>> > virtual links. >>> >>> [SCB] Since the topology advertised by the provider network can >>> contain real or virtual elements, why do we call it "virtual >>> topology"? Should it simply be called "provider topology"? And then >>> specify that it may contain both virtual or real elements. >>> >>> Virtual topology includes only virtual nodes. Even when we are >>> considering real PEs terminating VLs, we must treat the PEs in the >>> context of Virtual Topology as VNs since they must be named >from the >>> client naming space. >>> >>> Igor >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>On Behalf >>> Of Snigdho Bardalai >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:48 PM >>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 >>> >>> Hi Daniele, >>> >>> A few comments. Please see in-line. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Snigdho >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf >>> > Of Daniele Ceccarelli >>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:33 AM >>> > To: CCAMP >>> > Subject: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 >>> > >>> > Dear overlayers, >>> > >>> > Please find below a new version (v2) of the framework summary >>> > reflecting the latest discussions. Again i hope i've captured all >>> > the comments around, sorry if anything is missing, in case >>just let >>> > me know what i missed. >>> > >>> > BR >>> > Daniele >>> > >>> > >>> > + Disclaimer: >>> > 1. Packet opto integration is often considered but the >>work can be >>> > extented to any type of SC. Eg. TDM over LSC. >>> > >>> > + Terminology: >>> > 1. Virtual Link: A virtual link is a potential path between two >>> > virtual or real network elements in a provider layer >network that >>> is >>> > maintained/controlled in and by the provider domain >control plane >>> > (and as such cannot transport any traffic/data and protected from >>> > being >>> > de-provisioned) and which can be instantiated in the data plane >>> > (and then can carry/transport/forward traffic/data) preserving >>> > previously advertised attributes such as fate sharing >information. >>> > 2. Virtual Node: Virtual node is a collection of zero or more >>> > provider network domain nodes that are collectively >>represented to >>> > the clients as a single node that exists in the customer layer >>> > network and is capable of terminating of access, inter-domain and >>> virtual links. >>> >>> [SCB] Agree with Igor's comment - a virtual node can be a >>combination >>> of multiple nodes or a part of the single node, but to the customer >>> node this is transparent. > >Yes, agree. > >>> >>> > 3. Virtual Topology: Virtual topology is a collection of one or >>> > more virtual or real provider network domain nodes that exist in >>> > the customer layer network and are interconnected via 0 or more >>> > virtual links. >>> >>> [SCB] Since the topology advertised by the provider network can >>> contain real or virtual elements, why do we call it "virtual >>> topology"? Should it simply be called "provider topology"? And then >>> specify that it may contain both virtual or real elements. > >See above > >>> >>> > 4. Overlay topology: is a superset of virtual >topologies provided >>> by >>> > each of provider network domains, access and inter-domain links. >>> >>> [SCB] A more concise definition for the overlay topology is >>- CE nodes >>> + Access-links + provider topology as advertised by the provider >>> network. > >We wanted to include also the possiblity of having multiple >provider domains. > >>> >>> > 5. Access Link: Link between OC and OE. GMPLS runs on >>that link. It >>> > can support any of the SCs supported by the GMPLS. >>> > 6. CE (customer Edge): Something like the CN in RFC4208 >>teminology >>> > but (i) receiving virtual topology from the provider network and >>> > requesting the set up of one of them or >>> > (ii) requesting the computation and establishment of a path >>> > accordingly to given constraints in the provider network and >>> > receiving the parameters characterizing such path. (ii) == UNI. >>> > 7. PE (provider Edge): Something like the EN in RFC4208 >>but able to >>> > deal with (i) and (ii) above. >>> > 8. PE-CE interface (former ONI) : Interface allowing for >>signaling >>> > and routing messages exchange between customer overlay >>and provider >>> > network. Routing information consists on virtual topology >>> > advertisement. When there is no routing adjacency across the >>> interface >>> > it is equivalent to the GMPLS UNI defined in 4208. Signaling >>> > messages are compliant with RFC4208. Information related to path >>> > carachteristics, e.g. TE-metrics, collected SRLG, path >delay etc, >>> > either passed from CE to PE via signaling after the LSP >>> > establishment in the core network or from CE to PE to be used as >>> > path computation constraints, fall under the definition of >>> > signaling info and not routing info). >>> > 9. CE-CE (former O-NNI): Interface on the links between >different >>> > provider networks in the overlay model environment. Same >features >>> > of the CE-PE apply to this interface. >>> >>> [SCB] Is this "PE-PE" instead of "CE-CE"? > >Oooops! Definitely. > >>> >>> > >>> > + Statements >>> > 1. In the context of overlay model we are aiming to build an >>> > overlay topology for the customer network domains 2. >The overlay >>> > topology >>> is >>> > comprised of: >>> > a) access links (links connecting client NEs to the provider >>> > network domains). >>> > They can be PSC or LSC. >>> > b) inter-domain links (links interconnecting server network >>> > domains) >>> > c) virtual topology provided by the provider network domains. >>> > Virtual Links + Virtual Nodes (TBD) + Connectivity Matrix (with a >>> set >>> > of parameters e.g. SRLG, optical impairments, delay etc for each >>> > entry) describing connectivity between access links and virtual >>> links. >>> > 3. In the context of overlay model we manage hierarchy >>of overlay >>> > topologies with overlay/underlay relationships 4. In >the context >>> > of overlay model multi-layering and inter-layer >relationships are >>> > peripheral at best, it is all about horizontal network integration >>> 5. >>> > The overlay model assumes one CP instance for the customer network >>> and >>> > a separate instance for the provider network and in the CE-PE >>> > interface case the provider network also surreptitiously >>> participates >>> > in the customer network by injecting virtual topology >information >>> > into it. >>> >>> [SCB] Specific implementations may or may not have a single >instance >>> for the provider and the overlay. > >Mmm, that's true. It MUST work with two different instances >but no one prevents it to work with a single one. > >>> >>> > 6. L1VPN (and LxVPN) in general is a type of service >>provided over >>> > the CE-PE interface (it falls under the UNI case as no routing >>> > adjacency is in place between CE and PE). >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > + Advertisement models (to be detailed in dedicated >>> > + document/documents) >>> > The CE-PE interface in the overlay model context foresees >>two types >>> > of advertisement models.(names still to be agreed) A. >>Augmented UNI: >>> > The GMPLS UNI is defined in RFC4208 and augmented by a number of >>> > actived draft (references to various drafts to be added). >>> > The Augmented UNI is a particular type of CE-PE interface where >>> > only signaling messages are exchanged between CE and PE. >Messages >>> > from CE to PE can include a set of parameters to be used >>by the PE >>> > as path computation constraints when computing a path in the >>> > provider domain network, while messages from PE to CE can >>include a >>> > set of >>> parameters >>> > qualifying the LSP being established, like for example >>SRLG, delay, >>> > loss etc. >>> > B. ONI: The GMPLS ONI is a CE-PE interface (this could be simply >>> > called with the general CE-PE interface term?) allowing the >>> > establishment of signaling and routing adjacency between >>CE and PE. >>> > Routing info passed from PE to CE comprise overlay topology >>> > information including (but not limited to) virtual links, >>> > connectivity matrices and access links with parameters qualifying >>> each >>> > of them in terms of e.g. SRLG, loss, delay etc. Signaling >>> > information >>> and procedures are compliant with RFC4208. >>> > >>> > + Open issues/questions >>> > 1. PCE-PCEP - do we need to include considerations about PCE and >>> PCEP >>> > into the overlay framework context? >>> >>> [SCB] IMO - this should be described in the overlay >>framework document >>> to establish the context. > >+1 > >>> >>> > 2. BGP-LS needs to be considered >>> > 3. Should potentials be included? E.g. I2RS? >>> > 4. Virtual links: wouldn't a different definition of >>virtual links >>> > avoid the advertisement of connectivity matrices (this is >>out of the >>> > fwk scope but within the advertisement models one)? >>> > Take this example: >>> > PE1-----CE1 CE2-----PE2 >>> > CE1======VL1======CE2 >>> > CE1======VL2======CE2 >>> > i.e. There are 2 VL connecting CE1 and CE2 that could be available >>> for >>> > PE1 and PE2 to set up an adjacency in the customer domain. CE1 >>> > and/or >>> > CE2 can be blocking nodes so VL1 and/or VL2 are available only >>> > depending on the connectivity matrices of CE1 and CE2. Hence PEs >>> > need to be aware of both VL and connectivity matrices. My >>point is: >>> > if CE1 advertises to PE1 only the VL that his connectivity matrix >>> > allows to be connected to PE1 (e.g. VL1 only) and not all >of them, >>> > it should be possible to avoid the connectivity matrices >>advertisement. >>> > >>> > >>> > =================================== >>> > DANIELE CECCARELLI >>> > System & Technology - PDU Optical & Metro >>> > >>> > Via E.Melen, 77 >>> > Genova, Italy >>> > Phone +390106002512 >>> > Mobile +393346725750 >>> > daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com >>> > www.ericsson.com >>> > >>> > This Communication is Confidential. We only send and >receive email >>> > on the basis of the term set out at >>> > www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > CCAMP mailing list >>> > CCAMP@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CCAMP mailing list >>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >> >
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Snigdho Bardalai
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Snigdho Bardalai
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Snigdho Bardalai
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Snigdho Bardalai
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extensions? (… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Overlay model framework v2 Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Snigdho Bardalai
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Additional overlay protocol extension… John E Drake