RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-00.txt
Shahram Davari <Shahram_Davari@pmc-sierra.com> Thu, 06 March 2003 15:10 UTC
Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 07:11:59 -0800
Message-ID: <4B6D09F3B826D411A67300D0B706EFDEB03D69@nt-exch-yow.pmc-sierra.bc.ca>
From: Shahram Davari <Shahram_Davari@pmc-sierra.com>
To: "'curtis@fictitious.org'" <curtis@fictitious.org>
Cc: Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>, "'Mark.Jones@mail.sprint.com'" <Mark.Jones@mail.sprint.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, mpls@UU.NET
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-00.txt
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 07:10:19 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>> 1) Is the decision on how to deal with extension requests, an IESG >> decision or an IETF consensus is required? > >If it is published as an informational recommendation by the IESG, >then no. The IESG does have veto power over internet-drafts that are >on the standards track, therefore it might be worth paying attention >to their recommendations. Using their veto power against IETF community's consensus, seems "a complete breakdown of relationship" between IETF community and IESG. > >btw- I should also point out that Scott Bradner does not make this >stuff up without talking to the other members of the IESG. I know. but IESG != IETF > >> 2) No one can stop other SDOs from extending any IETF protocol > >True. > >> 3) The draft says: >> >> "No individual, vendor, SDO or forum should be able >create what is viewed >> to be a major extension to an IETF protocol on its own and >> legitimately be able to claim that implementations that >implement the >> extension are compliant to the IETF specification." >> >> So if the other SDOs don't claim IETF compliance, rather >they claim their >> respective organizations compliance, there should not be any >problem. And if >> they mess up nobody would blame IETF for that. > >This would represent a complete breakdown of relationships. I'm not >making any value judgement, just an observation. Why? are you saying that if an SDO wants to define a brand new protocol (let's say MPLSv2), but to reuse some parts of an existing IETF protocol, then they shouldn't do it because IETF will get mad at them? -Shahram > >> -Shahram > >Curtis > > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@fictitious.org] >> >Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:34 PM >> >To: Shahram Davari >> >Cc: 'curtis@fictitious.org'; Alex Zinin; >'Mark.Jones@mail.sprint.com'; >> >ccamp@ops.ietf.org; mpls@UU.NET >> >Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-00.txt >> > >> > >> > >> >In message >> ><4B6D09F3B826D411A67300D0B706EFDEB03D65@nt-exch-yow.pmc-sierra.bc.ca >> >>, Shahram Davari writes: >> >> Is IESG=Curtis? >> >> >> >> -Shahram >> > >> > >> >That looks like a cheap shot of some kind. >> > >> >IESG == draft-iesg-vendor-extensions-00.txt >> > >> > 3. Recommendation >> > >> > The following principles are the main guiding principles >concerning >> > extensions to IETF protocol: >> > >> > o All major extensions to IETF protocols should be done >with direct >> > involvement of the IETF. >> > >> > o The decision on whether an extension is major or >minor should be >> > done with the direct involvement of the IETF. >> > >> >Those words are from the IESG draft. They are not my words. >> > >> >I thought that was obvious enough in my prior reply, but apparently >> >not. >> > >> >Curtis >> > >> > >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >> >From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@fictitious.org] >> >> >Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:53 PM >> >> >To: Alex Zinin >> >> >Cc: Shahram Davari; 'Mark.Jones@mail.sprint.com'; >> >ccamp@ops.ietf.org; >> >> >mpls@UU.NET >> >> >Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-00.txt >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >In message <18057706577.20030305113734@psg.com>, Alex >Zinin writes: >> >> >> Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 11:12:10 AM, Shahram Davari wrote: >> >> >> [...] >> >> >> > It might be a good idea to require that all IETF >> >protocols support >> >> >> > vendor-specific extensions, so that they could be used by >> >> >other SDOs >> >> >> > and for experiments. >> >> >> >> >> >> Ouch... draft-iesg-vendor-extensions-00.txt >> >> >> >> >> >> Alex >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Looks like the IESG doesn't agree with Shahram on this. >> >> > >> >> >Curtis >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Ong, Lyndon
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Bala Rajagopalan
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Bala Rajagopalan
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mak, L (Leen)
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Yangguang Xu
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Curtis Villamizar
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Curtis Villamizar
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Eric Rosen
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… George Newsome
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… John Drake
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… George Newsome
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Ong, Lyndon
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Loa Andersson
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Lazer, Monica A, ALABS
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Malcolm Betts
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Loa Andersson
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Loa Andersson
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Loa Andersson
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… neil.2.harrison
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Lazer, Monica A, ALABS
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Lazer, Monica A, ALABS
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… neil.2.harrison
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mark.Jones
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… neil.2.harrison
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… neil.2.harrison
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mark.Jones
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Yangguang Xu
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Gert Grammel
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… 'Scott W Brim'
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mark.Jones
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mark.Jones
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Don Fedyk
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Alex Zinin
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Alex Zinin
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Shahram Davari
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Jonathan Sadler
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Alex Zinin
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Mark.Jones
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… David Allan
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Alex Zinin
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Yangguang Xu
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Yangguang Xu
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Curtis Villamizar
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Zhi-Wei Lin
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Malcolm Betts
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott W Brim
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Scott Bradner
- Re: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Stephen Trowbridge
- RE: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-mpls-g-chng-proc-0… Kireeti Kompella