Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> Thu, 23 October 2014 20:59 UTC
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References: <D065A817.30406%kenny.paterson@rhul.ac.uk> <54400E9F.5020905@akr.io> <CAMm+LwhVKBfcfrXUKmVXKsiAMRSTV+ws+u07grmxkfnR2oYJoQ@mail.gmail.com> <5218FD35-E00A-413F-ACCB-AA9B99DEF48B@shiftleft.org> <m3r3y6z3z8.fsf@carbon.jhcloos.org> <CA+Vbu7x4Y_=JZ9Ydp=U5QnJokL28QMQnV4XUn9S6+CUZR9ozEw@mail.gmail.com> <5444D89F.5080407@comodo.com> <90C609A5-ECB2-4FDC-9669-5830F3463D2B@akr.io> <5448DBE2.10107@comodo.com> <CACsn0cne95adtTbCf6WyAZGyCSyLXo5L0302rm7238yHAsE5EQ@mail.gmail.com> <54493DB1.5070204@akr.io> <CALCETrWjR4ROJJFBTo-zAVUg6t50ppm0O_fd=gf2tCr8-evDwg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwi-X5_Bh-dwe54uzratLzpds=719F=hzpATCME4wDqxhA@mail.gmail.com> <CALCETrVicR0hj3oi1xCwfG9Z0n0PpBsrCCW7AGBo_-tpxcq3Rw@mail.gmail.com> <0317470A-AA6A-44FA-A831-81CB93204C78@shiftleft.org> <CAMm+LwgtJ_gEumsU=F9Lv0W0TzQMzY5TPCsvnwRVoihJqfpY_Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:58:40 -0700
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot
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On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote: > Having built large parallel machines and used them for very large tasks, I > am going by a little more than common sense. 512 bit arithmetic operations > are certainly going to be faster than 521. Now what that implies for > implementing > Knotted Weierstrass curves with a double Irish Dutch sandwich or whatever is > what I am looking for an explanation of in terms that I can explain to the > general security community. > > > What I began arguing is that 521 is going to break stride on a 512 bit > architecture and should be taken off the table unless the speed advantage is > enormous. I don't think we need to implement the algorithm to see that. > > Now if you are arguing that 512 will also break stride on a 512 bit > architecture then that is an important data point that by the same logic > argues for looking at a curve that does fit and maybe Golilocks is actually > the one. I'm really having trouble understanding what you mean by "break stride". I doubt that any implementation of any of these algorithms is even close to fast enough that the time it takes to shove data across the bus is relevant. If someone really builds special-purpose ASICs for this, they they can presumably back a 521-bit register (or any other size register) by a far smaller bus and get excellent performance. --Andy
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Hardware requirements, Brainpool (was:… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot James Cloos
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- [Cfrg] W3C WebCrypto WG Liasioning [was Re: ECC r… Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Samuel Neves
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara