Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?)
Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io> Thu, 16 October 2014 17:38 UTC
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 18:38:55 +0100
From: Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 16/10/2014 17:26, Johannes Merkle wrote: > with respect to the second issue, we have just published a common > position paper of the ECC Brainpool on the requirements for new > curves. http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/832 Most, if not all, arguments > have been expressed on this list before, but this is a consolidated > statement. Upon a read, and paraphrasing broadly (feel free to correct), what the Brainpool members seem to think meets the hardware scenario best is curves over "verifiably pseudo-random" primes, with points represented in short-Weierstrass form - because that matches best with their existing "high-assurance" pieces of hardware and the ways that they attempt to address attacks within them. They (naturally) want to minimise any changes to that general structure, to in turn minimise the costs of those changes. I note that none of the concrete, implemented proposals put forward so far are VPR. Do they have such a proposal? They have, of course, already specified a set of verifiably pseudo-random curves, which would be the Brainpool curves. I'm not totally clear what CFRG can positively add to that, because they are already specified. (An xkcd about competing standards springs to mind.) It seems that they also want a VPR curve(s?) to be mandatory-to-implement, presumably for interoperability's sake? I can see why they might want that, if VPR is the most convenient for their implementations - but from what I see from the hesitant adoption of Brainpool in the wider community, I have serious (albeit early) doubts that will reach wide consensus either here or in any downstream WG, due I suspect directly to the notoriously poor software performance characteristics of pseudo-random primes and the complexity required to correctly implement them in software. (This will of course be quantified during evaluation of any contender they put forward.) It seems to me at this stage that the requirements of the existing-hardware stakeholders of the Brainpool may be not only orthogonal, but actually (potentially) in direct opposition to the requirements of the software stakeholders - and further their requirements may (perhaps) already be satisfied by the Brainpool curves? - -- /akr -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUQAKuAAoJEOyEjtkWi2t62L4P+gLx6CZ0GJ5+6KYdeK3eA9Dd keqBpZjlR25r74sdtqufUZaPH8AgB2q0QGX2evQKXWZj5cDblpwq1dVFk1o17wtZ k+3C8wdtavENvCHPaFsRoQYferk33HLRhj1jw7M69BJo5HTEerImySANDAosNOpD 0dj+axICdfZ2GH0NvKScBN/gFZvUOj197SxDH+eVdy3g5HL52gUd4HAN17ZWSysG kwG9MRHtTkKndO4JTLxiFCTX3DWFRXVIrUBCucJnvPDC0Rlsrgk0lLBiGHKLYhJR bwdnBxuyijnzGmOjrRanZOCCIFoq05BtmwxbGGkA5BmCbTPwcLTltd9+doCihCYb UDPfTZ5GvDaGhq6sUmUbPZnay1gvGIO18nyzxZXINkBanENQnE/Ofa2cdr0Ps9DN 40N0bcobbuaila6v/497a0krAp9D7aQ5JFN4swI5DYicpuYVDl0nOK63bRPTY+e+ gk4AKRB4gpVodU/O0a3tACvGwD7E/vf3qNbgrkqHHwXzhzhWebCRB9xtUpikbeEv /R5yhCSFFXJ4DJB9oMi+kJjG+VmgdC3vOzN0Tra19Pq+znLYe4lFOTqZ/EX+S3Ql Ua/hWfvmJyvXRe9mZt/dRjwj8GeHgRGlEnvcEjXvdmevuw5TAtZrJrBLjMfWFPNO wKHWHyo/P4Rj3NQ3NfOl =i8MQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Hardware requirements, Brainpool (was:… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot James Cloos
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- [Cfrg] W3C WebCrypto WG Liasioning [was Re: ECC r… Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Samuel Neves
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara