Re: [codec] #1: Application: 2.1. Point to point calls supporting transcoding?

Hi,

it might be interesting to have a look on the decision of the ITU-T regarding the requirements of the ITU-T G.718. The document TD
314 (WP 3/16) (Geneva, 22 April - 2 May 2008 ) lists in TABLE A: Performance requirements and objectives for an embedded audio
coding algorithm 

Parameter
Requirement
Objective
Priority

9. Interoperability for speech

Interoperability with other ITU-T speech encoding standards and 
Interoperability  with 2G and 3G mobile radio systems is desirable.

Interoperability with G.722.2 @ 12,65 kb/s is of particular interest.

In the second phase of characterization Annex 1: Initial List of Test Conditions for Optimization/Characterization Phase II lists
the following test conditions,

*   NB self tandeming at R1 and at R2
*   WB self tandeming at R1 and at R5
*   NB Cross tandeming with G729A input
*   WB Cross tandeming with G722.2@12.65 input 
*   WB Cross tandeming with G722@64kbps input
To my understanding, the common consensus on this list is to have similar requirements as G.718 and to consider at least cross
tandeming conditions with G722.2@12.65 in the characterization phase.

With best regards,

 Christian

---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr.-Ing. Christian Hoene
Interactive Communication Systems (ICS), University of Tübingen 
Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany, Phone +49 7071 2970532 
 <http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/> http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/

From: James Rafferty [mailto:James.Rafferty@dialogic.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:46 PM
To: stephen botzko
Cc: Christian Hoene; codec@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [codec] #1: Application: 2.1. Point to point calls supporting transcoding?

Stephen, 

The two gateway or back-to-back gateway case will inevitably degrade quality to be G.711 level or worse.  The IP  IP case where
there is no PSTN codec conversion  is the much more interesting one for the marketplace.  Id agree picking a limited set of HD
codecs (for example, G.722 and G.722.2) for these tandeming purposes is the practical approach.  

James
James Rafferty 
Product Line Director, Integrated Media Gateways 
Dialogic, Inc.  
15 Crawford Street 
Needham, MA 02494 
USA 

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From: stephen botzko [mailto:stephen.botzko@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:22 PM
To: James Rafferty
Cc: Christian Hoene; codec@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [codec] #1: Application: 2.1. Point to point calls supporting transcoding?

Seems to me that there are two cases here - single gateway, and double gateway.:In the double gateway case, Endpoint A connects to
Endpoint B via a gateway pair using PSTN.  The audio is converted to G.711 narrowband by the first gateway, and back to the internet
codec by the second.  The best quality that can result is G.711, and the acoustic bandwidth is also limited to narrowband, even
though both endpoints can not see the G.711 hop.  Users may have other expectations, but they cannot be met.

In any event, measuring the tandeming quality performance of this codec with all other standard or popular) codecs would be a very
tedious exercise, and IMHO not practical.   We'd have to pick one or two codecs and let it go at that.

Stephen Botzko

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:59 PM, James Rafferty <James.Rafferty@dialogic.com> wrote:
Hi Christian,

See below (JR).

James

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Hoene [mailto:hoene@uni-tuebingen.de]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:23 PM
To: James Rafferty; codec@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [codec] #1: Application: 2.1. Point to point calls supporting transcoding?
Hi James,

>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Rafferty [mailto:James.Rafferty@dialogic.com]
...
>Vendors of products on these network edges will take the steps needed to get endpoints to communicate
>(as driven by their service provider customers), even if it requires a codec change to complete the
>call.

So, the main requirement in these cases is the interoperability. Conversational quality is of lesser importance.
Thus, we need not particular quality requirements beside that it works OK?
JR - An ability to interop is the first consideration and quality is still important; the customer will expect (whether reasonable
or not) better than PSTN quality if wideband codecs are being used by both endpoints.

Christian

>
>James
>
<snip>
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