Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing
Koen Vos <koen.vos@skype.net> Tue, 16 November 2010 09:12 UTC
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:13:00 +0100
From: Koen Vos <koen.vos@skype.net>
To: Anisse Taleb <anisse.taleb@huawei.com>
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Cc: codec@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing
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Hi Anisse, Your interpretations of "Internal" sound reasonable to me. I made a typo, and should have said "early versions" rather than "early version". Appologies. best, koen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anisse Taleb" <anisse.taleb@huawei.com> To: "Koen Vos" <koen.vos@skype.net>, "Christian Hoene" <hoene@uni-tuebingen.de> Cc: codec@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:49:27 AM Subject: RE: [codec] Opus codec licensing Dear Koen, Regarding Skype's position, could you please clarify what is meant by “internal” and “early version” ? - Internal : may have different meanings in this context, “internal” to organizations participating in the testing or “internal” to the IETF codec WG ? In both cases, “internal” somewhat contradicts the principle of spreading this to users for evaluation. - Early version : does this mean that later versions (still prior to RFC) are excluded ? Kind regards, Anisse --- From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Koen Vos Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:40 AM To: Christian Hoene Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Christian Hoene wrote: "It is planned to test the new codec by spreading it to users prior standardization. However, under the terms of this licensing declaration, this is not possible for anybody but Skype because it would require a license from Skype." Skype's position on this is: Skype is supportive of internal evaluation and testing of early version of the Opus specification prior to RFC. (sorry for the slow response) koen. ________________________________________ From: "Christian Hoene" <hoene@uni-tuebingen.de> To: "Stephan Wenger" <stewe@stewe.org>, codec@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:12:48 AM Subject: Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Hi From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Wenger Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:21 PM To: Jean-Marc Valin; Pochol@WebfootGames.com; codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Hi, With “hat”: It is, in almost all cases, unwise for a third party to circumscribe—or worse: abbreviate—licensing terms provided by a rightholder. Skype’s licensing declaration can be found at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1297. I note that the statement contains conditions beyond the acceptance of their technology into an IETF standard. Stephan [Christian Hoene] +1 It is planned to test the new codec by spreading it to users prior standardization. However, under the terms of this licensing declaration, this is not possible for anybody but Skype because it would require a license from Skype. Also, any enhancement of the codec, which does not conform to the original standard anymore, will require a license. Furthermore, any implementation of the codec that accidentally does not confirm to the standard yet will require a license fee. Clearly, these terms are unacceptable. Please, Koen, talk to your lawyer again to weaken this license statements. This shall include at least a draft versions of the standard. Also, updates of the standard shall not require any new license anymore. It is patent really essential for the opus codec? “A method of estimating noise in data containing voice information and noise includes receiving the data as a sequence of input values; transforming the data by applying a first non linear mapping to the input values wherein the derivative function of the mapping decreases in magnitude as the input values increase in magnitude smoothing the transformed data; and transforming the smoothed transformed data by applying a second non linear mapping that is opposite to the first non linear mapping, to determine an estimate of the noise in the inputted data.” Anyhow, it should not be too difficult to circumvent the patent. Any ideas? Christian --------------------------------------------------------------- Dr.-Ing. Christian Hoene Interactive Communication Systems (ICS), University of Tübingen Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany, Phone +49 7071 2970532 http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/ On 10.18.2010 19:26 , "Jean-Marc Valin" <jean-marc.valin@octasic.com> wrote: Opus is available under the BSD license. As for patents, Skype has pledged to make them available royalty-free once the codec is accepted as an IETF standard. Jean-Marc -----Original Message----- From: codec-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Pascal Pochol Sent: Mon 10/18/2010 10:19 PM To: codec@ietf.org Subject: [codec] Opus codec licensing Hello, we've been using speex and celt for voice and music but today I heard about Opus which sounds like a fantastic replacement for both these codecs. We're wondering if Opus will be released under the same type of license as speex and celt? SILK's license forbid its use in commercial software and we're worried that it might carry over to Opus. If not, as soon as Opus handles lower bitrates, stereo and fixed point decoding we'll be using it. -Pascal _______________________________________________ codec mailing list codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec ________________________________________ _______________________________________________ codec mailing list codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec _______________________________________________ codec mailing list codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Jean-Marc Valin
- [codec] Opus codec licensing Pascal Pochol
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Pascal Pochol
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Christian Hoene
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Roman Shpount
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Koen Vos
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Koen Vos
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Christian Hoene
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Stephen Botzko
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing James Cloos
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Christian Hoene
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Roman Shpount
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Benjamin M. Schwartz
- [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:Opus… Jonas Svedberg
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:… Erik Norvell
- Re: [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:… Anisse Taleb
- Re: [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:… Erik Norvell
- Re: [codec] Proposed Guidelines update , was: Re:… Erik Norvell
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Koen Vos
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Anisse Taleb
- Re: [codec] Opus codec licensing Koen Vos