Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ietf-core-sid
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Fri, 17 January 2020 00:47 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:47:34 -0800
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To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: Core <core@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ietf-core-sid
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 3:34 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: > > {Trying to answer several emails in this thread at once.} > > Ivaylo wrote: > >> Thank you very much for the discussion. It brings a lot of > interesting > >> perspectives on the problem how to make sure SIDs are most usable > for > >> people and make it difficult to make mistakes. > >> > >> I believe there are a few important points that need to be agreed > upon > >> before we accept how to fix anything. Here are my assumptions: > > "Petrov's Three Laws of SID allocation": > [in the spirit of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics] > > >> 1. we don't want to waste too much SIDs while creating SID modules > > I would have preferred if you hadn't made this the first point. > > >> 2. we want SIDs to be as stable as possible > >> 3. we don't want to unpleasantly surprise people with the way SIDs > >> need to be used as compared to only using YANG modules. > > andy> YANG module development has proven to be a messy process. > andy> It is the exception, not the rule, that a module stays stable > from draft-00 > andy> to RFC. > > So, again, I advocate that at WGLC, that the WG consider if they wish to > remove and/or renumber any SID values that have been allocated since WG > Adoption. > (Of course, we might being doing a BIS document, so there is history before I agree with this plan. > I see Carsten's point about the sid-file-revision could lead to people > being > attached to particular lineages. I don't think that is as likely; but I'm > not going to die on this hill. It's JSON, we could add it later if we > needed > it, but it would be better to specify what it is. I am happy with an > integer > that increments. I think that the SID writer should probably insert it's > name, revision, the date it ran, who ran it, the phase of the moon, and the > current cost of a .org domain, into the file if it changes anything. > > >> My question is what happens currently with an implementation that > uses > >> a version of YANG module that has been present inside a draft, but > >> have differences with the version in the final RFC that is published > >> from the draft? > > andy> The implementor is on their own, just like now for YANG, > andy> and just like MIB modules for 30+ years. Vendors know that > andy> implementing a work-in-progress is dangerous. WGs should know > andy> that publishing an RFC with zero implementation experience for > the > andy> technology in the draft is going to produce an inferior result. > > I think that you intended to identify a tussle here, but maybe it was > rather subtle? > It is a delicate balance. Vendors are not supposed to complain when the draft changes and running code has to be rewritten. . > > On the one hand: work-in-progress can be dangerous to implement. > On the other hand: having no implementation feedback produces inferior > results. > > The discussion we are having here is how to enhance the stability of the > spec > in order to reduce cost/risk of early implementations, while at the same > time > allowing the WG to regret (and reverse) early decisions. > > I think that the flow I have suggested works: allocate at adoption time, > remove dead-wood at WGLC, and make renumbering a WGLC consideration. > > andy> Only the RFC versions of MIB or YANG modules is ever recorded by > IANA. > andy> The work-in-progress versions are extracted from drafts. > andy> The YangModels github repo stores these modules. > > Andy, should sid files be included in <CODE BEGINS> then along with YANG > modules? We don't say anything about that, I think. I hadn't thought > about this. > > > > Yes. They are code components Andy > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > > -- > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >
- [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ietf-c… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Peter van der Stok
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] progressing ietf-core-yang-cbor and ie… Ivaylo Petrov