[dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea
<david.black@emc.com> Sat, 21 January 2012 01:22 UTC
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From: david.black@emc.com
To: adalela@cisco.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:22:38 -0500
Thread-Topic: OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea
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Cc: dc@ietf.org
Subject: [dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea
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Ashish, Unfortunately, this is digging in the "wrong place" because it recreates the problem that OVF was designed to solve. OVF is intended to be a self-contained packaging and distribution format that contains everything needed to instantiate one or more VMs. As such, OVF can be moved by all of the protocols noted below, plus a variety of other means, such as sneaker-net. If OVF is insufficient for the portability use case, then I suggest going to DMTF to work on adding what's missing instead of inventing a "control plane" that is at odds with OVF's design intent. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashish Dalela (adalela) [mailto:adalela@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:10 PM > To: Black, David > Cc: dc@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt > > > >> Was that supposed to be a serious question? > > Yes, it is a serious question, because VM mobility goes beyond the VM. > > >> If it was, I suggest FTP or NFS, both of which are already used to > move VM > >> images in practice, and are already specified in RFCs ;-). OVF is > fundamentally > >> a VM image format. > > That's one approach. Another approach is to use a SOAP/REST APIs. Yet > another one is to define a cloud control plane, that does more than just > move VMs. E.g. when you move a VM, you have to move the firewall rules, > the VLAN association, the bandwidth, VRF configuration, GRE tunnel > configuration, etc. > > Thanks, Ashish > > > -----Original Message----- > From: david.black@emc.com [mailto:david.black@emc.com] > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:18 AM > To: Ashish Dalela (adalela) > Cc: dc@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt > > > - Do we need a "control plane" to transfer OVF specification from > point > > A to B - the portability problem? > > Was that supposed to be a serious question? > > If it was, I suggest FTP or NFS, both of which are already used to move > VM > images in practice, and are already specified in RFCs ;-). OVF is > fundamentally > a VM image format. > > Thanks, > --David > ---------------------------------------------------- > David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer > EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA 01748 > +1 (508) 293-7953 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 > david.black@emc.com Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 > ---------------------------------------------------- > ________________________________________ > From: dc-bounces@ietf.org [dc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ashish > Dalela (adalela) [adalela@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:20 PM > To: Thomas Narten; Steven Blake > Cc: dc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt > > I think it is fair to say that there is a difference between mobility > and portability. Mobility is live migration, but portability is > specifying a VM's properties, delete in one location and create in > another. The new location can be another hypervisor. In many cases, you > don't need mobility, just portability. E.g. if you have a disaster > recovery situation, then you aren't going to get mobility anyway. > > DMTF has specified a standard called OVF (Open Virtualization Format) > that addresses the "description" of the VM. This format is supported by > various hypervisor vendors. So, some level of VM migration > standardization has already happened (albeit portability and not > mobility). > > The questions are: > > - Do we need a "control plane" to transfer VM state from point A to B - > the mobility problem? > - Do we need a "control plane" to transfer OVF specification from point > A to B - the portability problem? > > The problem is relevant in the inter-datacenter, public-private, or > inter-cloud spaces, where there will be more than one hypervisor > controller by definition. Are we hitting the live migration issue today? > Maybe not. Is it conceivable that we will hit this issue? I think so. > > However, the question has to be asked to the provider/operators and not > to the vendors. > > Thanks, Ashish > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Thomas Narten > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:17 PM > To: Steven Blake > Cc: dc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt > > Steven, > > > Several system vendors (myself included) stood up in Taipei and said > > "one encapsulation, please". If IETF can facilitate industry > > convergence on a small set of NVO3 encapsulations (preferably one), > that > > would be a big win for Ethernet switch vendors. > > I agree completely. > > But my questions were asking about the apparent lack of interest from > operators/implementers/market players regarding Bhumip's draft and the > apparent desire to have some sort of standards work related to the > general VM migration problem. > > Is there such interest? > > Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > dc mailing list > dc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dc > _______________________________________________ > dc mailing list > dc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dc
- [dc] Comment of draft-dalela-dc-requirements Lizhong Jin
- Re: [dc] Comment of draft-dalela-dc-requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] Comment of draft-dalela-dc-requirements Lizhong Jin
- Re: [dc] Comment of draft-dalela-dc-requirements Bhumip Khasnabish
- [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Thomas Narten
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Christopher LILJENSTOLPE
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Thomas Narten
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Steven Blake
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Steven Blake
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Thomas Narten
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Christopher LILJENSTOLPE
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Melinda Shore
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt david.black
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Melinda Shore
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Melinda Shore
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt vishwas.ietf
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Melinda Shore
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Thomas Narten
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Vishwas Manral
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Melinda Shore
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Christopher LILJENSTOLPE
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Vishwas Manral
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Christopher LILJENSTOLPE
- [dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea david.black
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Vishwas Manral
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea david.black
- Re: [dc] OVF "control plane" - Not a good idea Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Donald Eastlake
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [dc] draft-khasnabish-vmmi-problems-00.txt Juergen Schoenwaelder