Re: [Detnet] Transport sub-layer name change (Was Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-08)

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Thanks, Lou, inline

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 05:34:09PM -0500, Lou Berger wrote:
> > I am not arguing for keeping Transport, i am just more worried about
> > "Traffic Engineering" than "Transport". I think a uniue new term without
> > name recognition and resulting confusion would be best.
> > 
> > Maybe form a new term from key words like the following, eg.:
> > 
> >   DetNet Flow SubNetwork Encapsulation and Adaption Layer (DF-SEAL)
> > 
> I personally think we have enough terms and should go with "DetNet TE
> Sub-Layer", "DetNet TE Network Sub-Layer", or  "DetNet Transport Network
> Sub-Layer"

AFAIK, TE classically does include protection, such as in RSVP-TE. Yet
in DetNet, protection is specifically part of the service sub-layer,
and arguably you probably won't want to reuse pre-existing protection
mechanism of the transport/TE sub-layer without a lot of further design
considerations if you're using the DetNet Service sub-layer
protection, so that TE/transport sub-layer is not really doing full TE.

Toerless

> Lou
> 
> > Cheers
> >      Toerless
> > 
> > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 04:10:58PM -0500, Lou Berger wrote:
> > > On 11/20/2018 3:11 PM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> > > > This terminology is certainly appropriate for TEAS. For DetNet, this
> > > > seems to make the assertion that the DetNet underlay is always
> > > > traffic-engineered, even if IPv4 or IPv6 (which is certainly possible
> > > > using TE extensions for the IGPs).
> > > This is certainly a fair point and one that does lead me to have a slight
> > > reservation about the change, that said, it seems the benefit out ways the
> > > downsides.
> > > 
> > > > As long as people are OK with this assertion, then I'm OK with it as
> > > > well. That should be made clear in the architecture spec where the term
> > > > "DetNet TE sub-layer" is introduced/defined.
> > > agreed.
> > > 
> > > Lou
> > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Andy
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 1:29 PM Grossman, Ethan A. <[e-mail]
> > > > <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >      I like it.
> > > >      Ethan.
> > > > 
> > > >      -----Original Message-----
> > > >      From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> > > >      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:27 AM
> > > >      To: Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>;
> > > >      Scharf, Michael <[e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> > > >      Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>;
> > > >      [e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > > >      Subject: RE: Transport sub-layer name change (Was Re: [Detnet]
> > > >      Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-08)
> > > > 
> > > >      I support this change;
> > > > 
> > > >      Pascal
> > > > 
> > > >      > -----Original Message-----
> > > >      > From: Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> > > >      > Sent: mardi 20 novembre 2018 19:19
> > > >      > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Scharf, Michael
> > > >      > <[e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> > > >      > Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>;
> > > >      [e-mail]
> > > >      <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > > >      > Subject: Transport sub-layer name change (Was Re: [Detnet]
> > > >      Tsvart last
> > > >      > call review of draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-08)
> > > >      >
> > > >      > ALL,
> > > >      >
> > > >      > There is a desire to replace the word "Transport" from the DetNet
> > > >      > Transport sub-layer to avoid confusion with L$ Transport protocols.
> > > >      >
> > > >      > In the TEAS WG we had a similar discussion and we replaced
> > > >      "Transport"
> > > >      > with "Traffic Engineered (TE) ".
> > > >      >
> > > >      > While a bit more verbose, what do people think about this change?
> > > >      >
> > > >      > To be clear, the suggestion is:
> > > >      >
> > > >      > OLD
> > > >      >
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >       |  DetNet Service sub-layer  | PW, UDP, GRE
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >       | DetNet Transport sub-layer | IPv6, IPv4, MPLS TE LSPs,
> > > >      MPLS SR
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >
> > > >      >                   Figure 4: DetNet adaptation to data plane
> > > >      >
> > > >      > NEW
> > > >      >
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >       |  DetNet Service sub-layer  | PW, UDP, GRE
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >       |      DetNet TE sub-layer   | IPv6, IPv4, MPLS TE LSPs,
> > > >      MPLS SR
> > > >      >       +----------------------------+
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >                     .
> > > >      >
> > > >      >                   Figure 4: DetNet adaptation to data plane
> > > >      >
> > > >      > Lou
> > > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> 
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