Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC-Compliant Mailing Lists

[Alessandro Vesely <[e-mail]>]

On Thu 07/Oct/2021 09:48:12 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote:
>> On 7 Oct 2021, at 01:08, Scott Kitterman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> On October 6, 2021 11:37:26 PM UTC, John Levine <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> It appears that Alessandro Vesely  <[e-mail]> said:
>>>> Doug's emphasis on aliases tends to give that impression.  Otherwise it can 
>>>> finally be a much needed attempt at formalizing the old, known From: rewriting.
>>> 
>>> To point out what I would think is obvious, formalizing a bad idea doesn't make
>>> it any less bad an idea.
>> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> To give a specific example:
>> 
>> The mobile mail client I use (K-9 Mail) will either display friendly name or email address.  Due to the compact user interface, both isn't an option.
>> 
>> There's one Google Group I'm a member of with a number of users with DMARC p=reject domains, so their addresses are rewritten to the list address.  As a result, when people don't bother to say who they are in a message, I end up digging through the message header to find out who wrote it.
>> 
>> This is not a good user experience.  It's not salvageable.
> 
> Agreed. The other day I was trying to refer work to a colleague I’ve only really interacted with on a professional mailing list. Due to header re-writing and no email address in any other place in the email, I didn’t actually have a direct email address for her.
> 
> It’s also become almost impossible to search for messages from some people in some clients because you can’t search on from: address any longer.
> 
> These are usability and UX problems induced by DMARC.


What do we want to do, then?

Let's exclude, for the sake of reality, both dropping DMARC altogether and 
stopping to use mailing lists.  What realistic possibilities are there?

ARC, when 60% of receivers will have (reliably) implemented it?  This is not 
more realistic than the Vernon's kook I cited upstream.

After careful consideration, header re-writing doesn't have to imply no email 
address in any other place.  Savvy lists save the original From: in Reply-To: 
or Cc:.  If some lists don't do that, perhaps specifying how to re-write From: 
can improve that condition, no?  When everything is done well, it is possible 
to unmunge From: and fully recover pre-DMARC functionality while still enjoying 
DMARC checks.


Do you see other possibilities?


Best
Ale
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