Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers
Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org> Tue, 12 February 2019 20:48 UTC
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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:48:14 -0800
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers
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Ted Lemon wrote on 2019-02-12 12:07: > On Feb 12, 2019, at 11:04 AM, Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org > <mailto:paul@redbarn.org>> wrote: >> actually, there are other choices. > > I may have failed to communicate. What I mean is that you said that > you can detect all nefarious traffic, but you can’t detect DoH, which to > you is nefarious. What I’m saying is that there’s no such distinction, > or at least if there is at present, it is a temporary situation. i realize that the political tacticians who designed DoH are searching for a world in which network operators have no control plane choices. i think they're proceeding from the mistaken belief that all control is evil, and that all network operators are equally deserving of disintermediation. and other mistaken beliefs as well, which i won't enumerate. > > Of course you have choices about what to do about this; my point is not > to suggest that you do not. > whether the situation turns out to be temporary or not is important to your final argument. probably you shouldn't go there so soon. spammers also believe that network operators should not be able to control their own networks, and malware authors, and botnet creators, and IoT innovators, and surveillance capitalists. none of those matters seem like they are, or will ever be, settled. so, none are "temporary". my network, my rules. anyone who acts otherwise will be treated by me as an adversary, even folks like mozilla who have been fellow travelers for decades now, if they continue to pursue unblockable endpoint technology. -- P Vixie
- [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative servers zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Jeremy Rand
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Vladimír Čunát
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Henderson, Karl
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Vladimír Čunát
- [DNSOP] DoH vs DoT vs network operators, and requ… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] DoH vs DoT vs network operators, and … Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… zuopeng@cnnic.cn
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Jim Reid
- [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS (was: ex… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Vladimír Čunát
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Bjørn Mork
- Re: [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS (was… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS Klaus Malorny
- Re: [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] extension of DoH to authoritative ser… Henderson, Karl
- Re: [DNSOP] Multiplexing DNS & HTTP over TLS Warren Kumari