Re: [Emu] POST WGLC Comments draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13

["Owen Friel (ofriel)" <[e-mail]>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan DeKok <[e-mail]>
> Sent: 07 November 2019 17:48
> To: Owen Friel (ofriel) <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Joseph Salowey <[e-mail]>; [e-mail];
> John Mattsson <john.mattsson=[e-mail]>; Michael
> Richardson <[e-mail]>; EMU WG <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [Emu] POST WGLC Comments draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13
> 
> On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Owen Friel (ofriel) <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > [ofriel] TLS1.3 explicitly does not allow both PSK and certs simultaneously.
> draft-ietf-tls-tls13-cert-with-extern-psk does, but that’s Experimental. I don't
> think TLS with extern PSK is really intended for Web/Browser HTTPS
> connections. Its more for devices/things which are preprovisioned with the
> extern PSK.
> 
>   Then the EAP-TLS document should disallow it, too.  If TLS 1.3 doesn't support
> it, I don't see how something built on top of TLS 1.3 can support it.

[ofriel]  TLS1.3 does not allow both PSK and cert based auth simultaneously on the same TLS session. It does allows support of both PSK and cert based auth on the same server, just on different TLS sessions. What draft-ietf-tls-tls13-cert-with-extern-psk does is allow both PSK and cert based auth simultaneously on the same TLS session. I can see how my statement was confusing, apologies.

> 
> > In TLS1.3, by design the protocol does not differentiate between resumption
> and external PSKs, and says nothing about PSK ID format, as commented here
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Q5K8HSPPgLRojQwXbV4ZTIxBIH0 ,
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/X_z8pc3oS2Au7KajjMhlWhP1UPc
> 
>   Which is fine.  I'm happy to have PSKs be anything.  The caveat is that we then
> MUST forbid the PSKs from being copied to the EAP Identity field.  So the EAP-
> TLS document has to make a recommendation.
> 
> > And its application specific how the two are differentiated, the spec says
> nothing about it:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/btLnZERYv8GJJ2PFUksjNsDyv8o
> >
> > I still don't get why EAP-TLS1.3 should place restrictions on use of TLS1.3.
> Surely it should be an EAP server implementation decision on whether to support
> that feature or not, but we should not preclude a specific EAP server
> implementation from supporting extern PSK by disallowing it in the spec. If a
> particular EAP server does not want to support extern PSK - that’s fine.
> 
>   Then we need to give guidance on what implementors and administrators
> should do.  Even if it means adding text saying "you can do certs OR PSK, but
> NOT BOTH".
[ofriel] You can do certs or PSK on the same TLS server, just not on the same TLS session. Unless draft-ietf-tls-tls13-cert-with-extern-psk became a thing.
> 
>   Alan DeKok.