IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Extra] Sieve REJECT and :fcc [was Re: Meeting minutes and notes from today]

Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> Thu, 04 January 2018 01:08 UTC

Return-Path: <brong@fastmailteam.com>
X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CAC12D838 for <extra@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:08:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.72
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=PdoozbK/; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=c7kMyewQ
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PyC1fhtYUoET for <extra@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A398612D7F7 for <extra@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3AC620BB7; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 20:08:14 -0500 (EST)
Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:08:14 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=4ADd5C rT5RqFz3HBLY5atqzsmNw8qH/XJszoekkBrwE=; b=PdoozbK/pVTQ9bosof/mqT MFmzNnT+9MsAQYGBdWOvDKCJBHqpEnSD/JDGNZqkO9LBLzp1iwdsZHwv6xOc0Jok /x/P4oAB6oRv9zHEG8hk0nu8w1HePCubLE6ndgFF0izIJ7q5ui045N0NvJVZSSm4 JA5IWM2r+IR0+X+nXxkjHIO4NcO1qqdaJ/C/z+sMHnuwKO5UlXybwvpnSgmTgx1P g9Fhtc1DufwjhbsdVOKx4ePZlEPSh8bcv6fi63jYVZ7/DUrNrip029RLGuOdRL0n 2oZo61bjmdvnI7A9TXIjHHyYmV2+C7EckVh/WVyILmlKpB3lvFuHVDK7A0gzo4pA ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=4ADd5C rT5RqFz3HBLY5atqzsmNw8qH/XJszoekkBrwE=; b=c7kMyewQwluMc0RXNJ3KoB PvQUQRGDelnb9i2oP8yGzwjXSxm8T9t4gPa5DkzWKG74hcwvnKOrcbvvs9Tfreee O14hw9Hil+oei9qKAiZjB+ajFujzZrHuxvcknNk50gJFSKwkqerGls6oOy/HBgOY 0mNyZjjv6TpRS6Y08niUj4QT+bsbZg+NHoBuh9hy4ICfLjZujTh4e5wQTu1xEaFm TSpI3MjM7DPmqjnh8lDcVZmPjSFJclGJrkt5GQGPOtzvEiYq/CJeJgoMv96xallP 2gRR3pgJtPqqBysyxfkYLxI+G2Bl40TGwq3XfiRi8orThgwDCl5ADLHMkhR+hT1A ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:fn5NWgNELkxa6CKcFknaMiuGfgQWK6VCwtAcZ5SGxwfHXl85r-ZkCA>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id A9D339E259; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 20:08:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <1515028094.3135331.1223576440.053F86DC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
From: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
To: Stan Kalisch <stan@glyphein.mailforce.net>
Cc: extra@ietf.org, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, Murchison Ken <murch@fastmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_151502809431353312"
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-cc9a457c
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 12:08:14 +1100
In-Reply-To: <C0D8D552-4B1C-49D9-8CCC-E6F57F225C1A@glyphein.mailforce.net>
References: <1510734636.1704307.1173072248.27572238@webmail.messagingengine.com> <C0D8D552-4B1C-49D9-8CCC-E6F57F225C1A@glyphein.mailforce.net>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/extra/bUBGBApC6bE7ZW3umXfl74-Dxbg>
Subject: Re: [Extra] Sieve REJECT and :fcc [was Re: Meeting minutes and notes from today]
X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend <extra.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/extra>, <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/extra/>
List-Post: <mailto:extra@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra>, <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 01:08:17 -0000

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, at 09:06, Stan Kalisch wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Nov 15, 2017, at 3:30 AM, Bron Gondwana
> <brong@fastmailteam.com> wrote:>> *There is an open question for this one:*
>> 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-extra-sieve-fcc/
>> 
>> Ned Freed objected to supporting :fcc for the REJECT action because
>> it allows the sieve server to "lie" about whether it's keeping a copy
>> of the message.  There was debate about whether we should stop people
>> lying at this level, especially since a mail flow could take a copy
>> of every single email before it reached sieve.> 
> I haven't been able to watch any video of the meeting yet, but would
> it be fair to say the main points of this debate were laid out in this
> thread on the Sieve mailing list earlier this year?> 
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sieve/current/msg05362.html
> 

I don't know if this was ever resolved.  I prefer the user to be allowed
to lie, Ned objects to that.  I don't actually care that much though, so
I'm happy to say no :fcc on REJECT.  It's not like I would actually use
it because sieve REJECT is bad anyway, it creates backscatter.
So Ken - I'm happy to go ahead with "not supported on reject".

The other open issue was separate capability string.  I don't think
that's necessary, and nobody else seems to have commented on it.
I've created one task for each:

https://github.com/ietfextra/tracking/issues/14
https://github.com/ietfextra/tracking/issues/15

Bron.

--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email