Re: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain) in the recent weeks and today

[Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[e-mail]>]

Yes of course. Thanks for understanding Jordi. Very much appreciated.

Regards

On 1 Oct 2017 14:12, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> Fully agree, but I can’t let false information to be spread in an IETF
> list.
>
> I’m not going to debate about it here.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: gaia <[e-mail]> en nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan <
> [e-mail]>
> Responder a: <[e-mail]>
> Fecha: domingo, 1 de octubre de 2017, 15:10
> Para: <[e-mail]>
> CC: gaia <[e-mail]>
> Asunto: Re: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain)
> in the recent weeks and today
>
>     Great thanks.
>     Better to have any further political debates done offlist imho.
>
>     Thanks.
>     Regards
>
>
>     On 1 Oct 2017 13:35, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
>     I’m sorry, but this is not true. Ignoring part of the info, and
> spreading only partial histories, don’t make them true, actually is a way
> to CENSOR.
>
>     I’m Catalonian and my view of the true is different. I’ve also seen
> some of the Court Orders, so I know what I’m speaking about.
>
>     You’re also mistranslating *military police* from *guardia civil*,
> which is a totally different concept. Guardia Civil is the police that
> supports citizens in the small towns, take care of traffic in roads, and
> also many investigations related to cybercrime, among others. An
> explanation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Guard_(Spain)
>
>     Also, http://www.guardiacivil.es/en/institucional/Conocenos/
> idcorporativa/naturalezami/index.html
>
>     Our Constitution doesn’t allow to split the country, neither a
> referendum about that obviously. You can find consensus with all the
> parties, as they have been talking about for years, to amend the
> Constitution, but not to disobey the law. Otherwise, all the citizens will
> have the same right to ignore laws.
>
>     So, isn’t the Spanish Government, but the Constitutional Court that
> has dictated that this process is illegal and can’t take place and took
> measures, such as blocking ONLY web sites duplicating the illegal
> information about the process. The same as if terrorist or thief’s, decide
> to create web sites to do apology of illegal acts, they will be banned, as
> well as every new copy.
>
>     I’m all for freedom of speech, but never going against the law in a
> democratic country.
>
>     I’ve several cases myself against the Spanish Government, and one of
> them already for 15 years. Should I disobey the law and jump over? NO,
> despite how much I believe I’m right (as many other people affected by this
> case), I need to wait, even if this takes other 15 years.
>
>     If we allow, IN ANY *DEMOCRATIC* COUNTRY in the world, to jump over
> laws, we don’t have democracy anymore. I want also to split my home and the
> land where it is constructed from the country. Is that right?
>
>     So, in consequence, anyone doing illegal acts, such as preparing the
> illegal referendum, will need to be prosecuted, pay the fines, etc.,
> OTHERWHISE, the rest of the citizens will have the SAME rights, to bypass
> even traffic fines.
>
>     I’ve described the situation in a couple of articles:
>
>     http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170926_catalonian_matter_
> law_order_democracy_freedom_of_speech_censorship/
>
>     https://jordipalet.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/isoc-against-
> its-own-principles-acting.html
>
>
>
>     Regards,
>     Jordi
>
>
>     -----Mensaje original-----
>     De: gaia <[e-mail]> en nombre de Leandro Navarro <
> [e-mail]>
>     Responder a: <[e-mail]>
>     Fecha: domingo, 1 de octubre de 2017, 13:50
>     Para: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>     Asunto: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain)
> in the recent weeks and today
>
>         Dear all,
>
>         You may have heard that today the 1-O referendum in Catalonia is
>         ongoing. 73% of electoral offices were open this morning despite
> the
>         blockade from prosecutors, judges and the charges from police
> forces.
>         There are very long queues to vote.
>
>         Meanwhile the "guardia civil", a military police, together with
> the riot
>          police, have entered in large groups to some of the electoral
> offices
>         (especially those where high profile politicians were expected) to
> seize
>          the ballot boxes and papers. As a result of the police charges to
>         peaceful people, tenths of people have suffered injuries (you can
> find
>         in the media sad images in the election offices).
>
>         As a result of a long list of measures and countermeasures to
> avoid the
>         referendum (many orders from public prosecutors, only recently
> from a
>         judge, budget blockade to public payments of many kind), the
> Catalan
>         government has declared this morning the "universal census" so
> people
>         can move and vote in alternative offices if his own is blocked (as
> the
>         validation of voters is done over the Internet). Civil society have
>         found ways to spread the message and enable voting that were not
>         possible many years ago.
>
>         Voting is slow and painful but is progressing. There are many
> network
>         attacks, the police has disconnected Internet access and wifi APs
> to
>         schools to block the election offices, and many sites to collect
> and coordinate the process. The Internet is fragmented in Catalonia.
> Hundreds of web sites from public but
>         also civil-society organizations have been seized or blocked. A
> few days
>          ago, the tech responsible of the .cat TLD was literally taken
> from him
>         home while showering and detained for 3 days with no formal
> accusation.
>         As a result, the .cat TLD and many .cat sites have been blocked.
> Some people that
>         replicated web sites where detained and forced (by a judge +
> police) to
>         give their passwords for, not only the sites, but also their
> personal
>         email and personal accounts in social media.  Citizens and
> electoral
>         offices are using new imaginative and decentralized means to
> deliver
>         votes and manage the census (using VPNs abroad, Tor, IPFS, etc) to
>         certify the process.
>
>         This repression and human rights violations against a peaceful
> movement,
>          to block the political expression of a large group of
>         citizens against political problems, cannot be justified as being
>         declared "illegal" respect to a given rule of law (the Spanish
>         constitution defined 42 years ago, never reformed). Let's see what
> political solutions we can find now, after years of
>         political fights, and a weekend of repressive police actions
> against so
>         many citizens willing to express their political opinions.
> Probably it
>         will not be easier than before.
>
>         In my opinion, the human right for expression goes before the
> defense of
>          a given rule of law. Political negotiation and reforms are the
> way, and not
>         censorship, police charges and repression.
>
>         Certainly the Internet makes a difference in this process, for
> those
>         inside and outside. Among many other sad examples around the world,
>         let's learn and apply our lessons to build a more resilient and
> open Internet for
>         everyone.
>
>         Kind regards, Leandro.
>         --
>         Leandro Navarro
>         http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro     http://dsg.ac.upc.edu
>
>
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>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
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