Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed

"Rosen, Brian" <> Thu, 04 December 2014 19:40 UTC

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From: "Rosen, Brian" <>
To: Randall Gellens <>, "Militeau, Christian" <>
Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed
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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:40:11 +0000
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Cc: geopriv <>, Marc Linsner <>, "DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" <>
Subject: Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed
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Most systems have a ³coarse² location mechanism available.

On 12/4/14, 2:38 PM, "Randall Gellens" <> wrote:

>At 7:15 PM +0000 12/4/14, Brian Rosen wrote:
>>  While mobiles using licensed spectrum are clearly the biggest
>> problem, any device that has a WiFi interface could use this
>> mechanism to get a good location for an emergency call.  It isn't
>> using anything intrinsic to 3G/4G/5G systems.  It's not a US-only
>> problem.  Because you are linking multiple, independent networks,
>> you need something like the IETF to do that work.
>The concept of using the macro cell with which the device is
>associated intrinsically links the problem to cellular devices, as
>you mentioned in your earlier message:
>At 6:51 PM +0000 11/25/14, Brian Rosen wrote:
>>  So, what is needed is a way to connect the WiFi networks in a way
>> where you can reasonably query only those networks that might
>> reasonably have that MAC address.  I think that's probably based on
>> serving cell site.  The NAED would know which WiFi networks were
>> inside the serving cell area, and it would query (all of) them to
>> see which one has the MAC address, and thus the location (if
>> nothing else, the location of the AP that is serving the MAC).
>>   > On Dec 4, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Militeau, Christian
>> <> wrote:
>>>  Randy,
>>>  I agree with your assessment. ATIS (along with NENA and APCO) is
>>> in the process of initiating planning to support standards
>>> development.
>>>  Once ATIS has agreed on something, then it will be more clear on
>>> what the IETF needs to do for standards support.
>>>  It is anticipated that there will be communications among SDOs
>>> (ATIS, 3GPP, IETF, IEEE, etc.) to discuss the support of a
>>> standards development plan and possibly coordination like we have
>>> done in the past with the Emergency Services Coordination Group.
>>>  Regards,
>>>  Christian
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: Geopriv [] On Behalf Of Randall
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 10:41 PM
>>>  To: geopriv
>>>  Cc: Marc Linsner (mlinsner); DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
>>>  Subject: Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed
>>>  I agree that there does appear to be standards work that may be
>>> needed, with a role for the IETF.  However, before we in the IETF
>>> in general or geopriv (or ecrit) in particular jump in with
>>> specific proposals, I think we need to understand the requirements
>>> and overall architecture.  Since we are discussing protocols to be
>>> used with cellular calls, we need to work with the cellular
>>> industry to be sure that what we develop meets their needs and
>>> will be used.
>>>  To my knowledge, there has been very little discussion, much less
>>> agreement, by an industry-specific SDO such as ATIS (since we are
>>> talking about the U.S.). Once this is done, the objectives for the
>>> IETF, as well as industry groups, will become clear.  In addition
>>> the FCC has not issued any new mandate as of yet and is still in
>>> an NPRM process.
>>>  Therefore, I think we need to wait until discussions on the
>>> requirements and architecture have further progressed by the
>>> industry groups.
>>>  --
>>>  Randall Gellens
>>>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself
>>>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- There is no
>>> unhappiness like the misery of sighting land (and work) again
>>>  after a cheerful, careless voyage.                          -- Mark
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Geopriv mailing list
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Geopriv mailing list
>Randall Gellens
>Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>A plane is a bad place for an all-out sleep, but a good place to
>begin rest and recovery from the trip to the faraway places you've
>been, a decompression chamber between Here and There. Though a
>plane is not the ideal place really to think, reassess or
>reevaluate things, it is a great place to have the illusion of
>doing so, and often the illusion will suffice.
>                      --Shana Alexander, The Feminine Eye, 1970.