Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed

Randall Gellens <> Thu, 04 December 2014 19:38 UTC

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 11:38:40 -0800
To: "Rosen, Brian" <>, "Militeau, Christian" <>
From: Randall Gellens <>
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Cc: geopriv <>, Marc Linsner <>, "DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" <>, Randall Gellens <>
Subject: Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed
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At 7:15 PM +0000 12/4/14, Brian Rosen wrote:

>  While mobiles using licensed spectrum are clearly the biggest 
> problem, any device that has a WiFi interface could use this 
> mechanism to get a good location for an emergency call.  It isn't 
> using anything intrinsic to 3G/4G/5G systems.  It's not a US-only 
> problem.  Because you are linking multiple, independent networks, 
> you need something like the IETF to do that work.

The concept of using the macro cell with which the device is 
associated intrinsically links the problem to cellular devices, as 
you mentioned in your earlier message:

At 6:51 PM +0000 11/25/14, Brian Rosen wrote:
>  So, what is needed is a way to connect the WiFi networks in a way 
> where you can reasonably query only those networks that might 
> reasonably have that MAC address.  I think that's probably based on 
> serving cell site.  The NAED would know which WiFi networks were 
> inside the serving cell area, and it would query (all of) them to 
> see which one has the MAC address, and thus the location (if 
> nothing else, the location of the AP that is serving the MAC).

>   > On Dec 4, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Militeau, Christian 
> <> wrote:
>>  Randy,
>>  I agree with your assessment. ATIS (along with NENA and APCO) is 
>> in the process of initiating planning to support standards 
>> development.
>>  Once ATIS has agreed on something, then it will be more clear on 
>> what the IETF needs to do for standards support.
>>  It is anticipated that there will be communications among SDOs 
>> (ATIS, 3GPP, IETF, IEEE, etc.) to discuss the support of a 
>> standards development plan and possibly coordination like we have 
>> done in the past with the Emergency Services Coordination Group.
>>  Regards,
>>  Christian
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Geopriv [] On Behalf Of Randall Gellens
>>  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 10:41 PM
>>  To: geopriv
>>  Cc: Marc Linsner (mlinsner); DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
>>  Subject: Re: [Geopriv] New indoor location - standards needed
>>  I agree that there does appear to be standards work that may be 
>> needed, with a role for the IETF.  However, before we in the IETF 
>> in general or geopriv (or ecrit) in particular jump in with 
>> specific proposals, I think we need to understand the requirements 
>> and overall architecture.  Since we are discussing protocols to be 
>> used with cellular calls, we need to work with the cellular 
>> industry to be sure that what we develop meets their needs and 
>> will be used.
>>  To my knowledge, there has been very little discussion, much less 
>> agreement, by an industry-specific SDO such as ATIS (since we are 
>> talking about the U.S.). Once this is done, the objectives for the 
>> IETF, as well as industry groups, will become clear.  In addition 
>> the FCC has not issued any new mandate as of yet and is still in 
>> an NPRM process.
>>  Therefore, I think we need to wait until discussions on the 
>> requirements and architecture have further progressed by the 
>> industry groups.
>>  --
>>  Randall Gellens
>>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- There is no 
>> unhappiness like the misery of sighting land (and work) again
>>  after a cheerful, careless voyage.                          -- Mark Twain
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Geopriv mailing list
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>>  Geopriv mailing list

Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
A plane is a bad place for an all-out sleep, but a good place to
begin rest and recovery from the trip to the faraway places you've
been, a decompression chamber between Here and There. Though a
plane is not the ideal place really to think, reassess or
reevaluate things, it is a great place to have the illusion of
doing so, and often the illusion will suffice.
                      --Shana Alexander, The Feminine Eye, 1970.