Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-grow-va-02
Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> Thu, 24 June 2010 15:41 UTC
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:41:55 -0400
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From: Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
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Cc: grow@ietf.org, dromasca@avaya.com
Subject: Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-grow-va-02
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On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > While autoconfig is not "necessary" in order to have a working VA system, I > think it (some form of autoconfig) is necessary in order to have a some form of config management relative to VA, sure. I'm not sure that some overlying protocol is called for, for the 12 routers out of 1200 that need this, in a hypothetical network. Just understanding: "route to the left on these devices only" seems fine. > deployable and operable VA system. Given that GROW is supposed to be > focussed on operability, I am not at all sure we should drop autoconfig. that's fair, in the end I have no strong feeling about it. I was proposing to skip it if we don't feel it's on the critical path. > {For context, the many concern I heard expressed at the early grow > presentations was concern that the complexity of configuration made the > system error prone and sufficient expensive, in terms of operational cost, > that it woudl cost more than it would save.) sure, and as stated in meetings (and on-list I believe) VA, to me, seems like a short term solution when there are no alternatives available to an operator for upgrades. There are lots of folks that do 'va' today *(by hand and in a very gross fashion) for this very reason. For example, one could look at the bgp customer config at cogent as a form of VA... (w/regular-person-hat) -chris > > Yours, > Joel > > Christopher Morrow wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Paul Francis <francis@mpi-sws.org> wrote: >>> >>> As it was, I was about to ask the list if folks thought VA could move >>> towards an informational RFC, or if folks felt that more implementation >>> experience were needed. Currently we have a linux/quagga implementation >>> that does not include MPLS tunneling. I'm not sure the status of the >>> Huawei implementation, but it is not to the point where it can be tested >>> against the linux implementation. In any event, VA doesn't require >>> wire-protocol changes, and I can well imagine that only once folks start >>> trying to deploy it will we really learn what configurations work best >>> (at >>> which point we can document that). In other words, even if we did have a >>> couple working implementations, there would be much more to learn from >>> real deployments. >>> >>> I wasn't aware of the IPR. According to the statement, it covers >>> technology in draft-ietf-grow-va-auto-01. This covers a way to simplify >>> configuration of the so-called VP-list. This approach is not mentioned >>> in >>> either of the main drafts (draft-ietf-grow-va-02 or >>> draft-ietf-grow-simple-va-00). My personal feeling is that this approach >>> is not very critical to the operation of VA, but lacking experience I >>> could certainly be wrong. In fact, if you look at the 00 draft of >>> auto-config, you'll see that there was a second method proposed for >>> auto-config which has pros and cons relative to Huawei's approach. This >>> was dropped from the 01 version primarily so as to keep things simple...I >>> don't think any of the non-Huawei authors felt strongly about these >>> approaches one way or the other. >>> >>> Bottom line, I don't think this IPR should impinge moving the two main >>> drafts forward---first because it is optional, and second because there >>> are alternatives. There are a couple ways we could move forward: >>> >>> 1. Stick with the set of drafts we have now (the two main drafts, and >>> the >>> optional auto-config draft with the IPR). >>> 2. Revive the second auto-config method so as to have a published >>> non-encumbered option (probably as a separate draft so that it is clear >>> what is and is not encumbered). >>> 3. Drop the auto-config draft, and continue forward with only the two >>> main drafts. >> >> my feeling is if the autoconfig isn't necessary, and is encumbered how >> about we live without it if possible :) >> (w/participant hat) >> -Chris >> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> PF >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> >>> To: grow@ietf.org >>> Cc: lixia@cs.ucla.edu, raszuk@cisco.com, xuxh@huawei.com, >>> jenster@cs.ucla.edu, hitesh@cs.cornell.edu, francis@mpi-sws.org, >>> dromasca@avaya.com, rbonica@juniper.net, pds@lugs.com >>> Date: 06/23/2010 09:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's >>> Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-grow-va-02 >>> >>> >>> >>> Grow-folk, >>> we should probably decide whether this is a blocking issue for VA >>> progression or not... I believe the ietf stance is that IPR claims are >>> fine, if there aren't other non-encumbered options available. >>> >>> -Chris >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 3:31 PM, IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Lixia Zhang, Robert Raszuk, Xiaohu Xu, Dan Jen, Hitesh Ballani, >>> >>> Paul Francis: >>>> >>>> An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "FIB >>> >>> Suppression >>>> >>>> with Virtual Aggregation" (draft-ietf-grow-va) was submitted to the IETF >>>> Secretariat on 2010-06-23 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of >>> >>> Intellectual >>>> >>>> Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1341/). >>> >>> The title >>>> >>>> of the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about >>> >>> IPR >>>> >>>> related to draft-ietf-grow-va-02." >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> GROW mailing list >> GROW@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow >> >
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Christopher Morrow
- [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co., L… IETF Secretariat
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Paul Francis
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… John Scudder
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [GROW] IPR Disclosure: Huawei Technologies Co… Xu Xiaohu
- [GROW] draft on FIB aggregation Paul Francis
- Re: [GROW] draft on FIB aggregation Lixia Zhang
- Re: [GROW] draft on FIB aggregation Lan Wang
- Re: [GROW] draft on FIB aggregation Zartash Uzmi