Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNECT handshakes

Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com> Thu, 02 December 2010 05:25 UTC

Return-Path: <gregw@intalio.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E433A689E for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:25:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.332
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5WwwChZYEKSL for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:24:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com (mail-qy0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570383A68AC for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:24:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so8347639qyk.10 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 21:25:26 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.224.174.8 with SMTP id r8mr8509278qaz.332.1291267526097; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 21:25:26 -0800 (PST)
Sender: gregw@intalio.com
Received: by 10.220.167.203 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:25:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpu0j7fvay8SZV52qnBz3brQVDM5kHkfcZ5c-M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik0wR-Oag5YJJDmdiSy67WW6TMaHmqWEo4o5kGW@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimwEtKrJm5KxTYZ4wrtONBYDTGjE5LF7__AHBEU@mail.gmail.com> <20101201183540.GF19021@1wt.eu> <AANLkTi=r-is4ZqJc6itsaBkyrmW746xXj8OV78M_Qbi3@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimtjYUOidZcxkSEtaUniJC6m8ujzFa69DMQVhZH@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimQ3bm5-2tN0QEt=qX4CR_XFpcLXF7Auz2ijo0Z@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTing3grEETt4s2CVSu4BtHPXOA8_MAm=sBQpYaJx@mail.gmail.com> <5CB83789-EC99-4DF1-B573-5683B153E9D9@apple.com> <AANLkTimpu0j7fvay8SZV52qnBz3brQVDM5kHkfcZ5c-M@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 06:25:25 +0100
X-Google-Sender-Auth: A0Hfb4ihOQ7Tph8jbOFMOxocwE8
Message-ID: <AANLkTik2vGEPNKKLi8tRAz3GmHT7L=3uzPFsyj6Jm8oy@mail.gmail.com>
From: Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com>
To: John Tamplin <jat@google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>, Zhong Yu <zhong.j.yu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNECT handshakes
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 05:26:16 -0000

On 1 December 2010 23:05, John Tamplin <jat@google.com> wrote:
> Ok, so if we took this approach, the proposed draft changes would be to include:
>  - using CONNECT instead of GET+Upgrade

+1 (give it a go at least and see if we can make it not look like an
abomination to those with HTTP eyes).


>  - uses the real host/port in the CONNECT and Host header

To be clear - that would be  something like

      CONNECT server.example.com:80 HTTP/1.1
      Host: server.example.com:80

and not the proposal I made to use a dedicated port (which can be
consider later)


>  - all handshake headers would be normal headers in the HTTP request/response
>  - keys would be included in headers not unframed bytes, with no space encoding

Since the current draft contains only a client nonce and server hash,
I think we should start with the same.   We can then consider if a
server nonce is needed or if neither are.

>  - no masking of headers or payload would take place
>  - no Hello frames

> Is that correct?

It is a good start

> If so, then I agree that would be a good step to see if we can get
> consensus on the less controversial parts before moving on to areas
> where there is more disagreement.

... where there is more agreement yet to be had.

cheers