Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNECT handshakes
Adam Barth <ietf@adambarth.com> Sat, 04 December 2010 09:22 UTC
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From: Adam Barth <ietf@adambarth.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 01:23:00 -0800
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To: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
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Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNECT handshakes
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On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net> wrote: > * Adam Barth wrote: >>David Huang, Eric Chen, Eric Rescorla, Collin Jackson, and I have been >>experimenting with the security of the Upgrade-based and CONNECT-based >>WebSocket handshakes. Please find a paper detailing our findings at >>this location: >> >>http://www.adambarth.com/experimental/websocket.pdf > > It would have been helpful if the key metrics had been summarized in a > simple tabular form for easy comparison (so one would not have to com- > pare an absolute X with a relative "all but two"), but from my cursory > reading this does not seem helpful in deciding which handshake is best. > > For instance, the success rate of cache poisoning is not helpful as > they apparently compare as 8 vs 0 of about 50 000 attempts. That could > be chance, We didn't report the p-value for these observations in the paper, but running a quick chi-square puts the p-value of these observations being the same distribution around 0.0047, which is certainly statistically significant. > that could be a result due to the rich media banner that > may not be supported in certain corporate or mobile settings, it could > be due to mistakes in the experiment, and so on. As with any experiment, there are factors we can't control. However, we do the best we can, and science moves forward. > If tomorrow someone > says they repeated the experiment and got 6 vs 3 I would find that en- > tirely plausible, and if then someone comes along saying it's 3 vs 6 > for them, I would find that plausible too, leaving no clear winner. I would be surprised if someone made those observations, purely on mathematical grounds. Another thing that's not reported in the paper is that we did a series of pilot studies to work out the bugs in our experiment. Our observations were fairly stable across all these iterations of the experiment. Of course, reasoning statistically about the pilot study is tricky due to post-hoc issues, which is why we only report the final data in the paper, which we can confidently analyze pre-hoc. > Could you summarize the key metrics in a tabular form so I can make > sure I haven't missed or misread any of them (between the Upgrade and > the CONNECT handshake primarily)? Sure. We show that for $100, an attacker is able to succeed in mounting 8 cache poisoning attacks against the Upgrade handshake. Note that this value is somewhat of a lower bound because our attacks are completely untargeted. By targeting the attack, an attacker can likely be even more cost-efficient. By contrast, we never observed a single successful cache poisoning attack against the CONNECT handshake despite 54,534 attempts. Adam
- [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNECT h… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Brian
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Joe Mason
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth
- Re: [hybi] Experiment comparing Upgrade and CONNE… Adam Barth