Re: [Iasa20] I-D Action: draft-hall-iasa20-workshops-report-00.txt

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Tue, 21 March 2017 18:40 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9E21294ED for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:40:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.302
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rvvuTX4aJp8o for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07D1C12778D for <iasa20@ietf.org>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5DDBE80; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:40:11 +0000 (GMT)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gz23rZnx_1mu; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:40:10 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from [10.244.2.100] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 815ACBE79; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:40:09 +0000 (GMT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1490121609; bh=+fWf89L204RWF/j7uA6h8Gw721l+hXjXspIPgAntnmA=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=BQC+embkc0XJWGVm9MsiKMo8lEDCaPfPJ865LdaJLn7r4DDQ3jsGcMWqF1Av8Aqh+ DuGUgIByzIZUutawvULYDkxMI62K3jXu6DDqZDBidiVctMa1qooIgqUw6zoBFs997e C+VE9N5P0iWYemjLggONgGKsvd7j3cqG0tIJ6fs0=
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, dcrocker@bbiw.net
References: <148941528136.16867.3807046327704023886@ietfa.amsl.com> <2938563f-6ad6-57a8-122f-805b8cf41ed5@gmail.com> <93fd4140-d72a-93d0-a57f-2375d788b762@dcrocker.net> <4815b979-4729-e1b2-f5a1-3d8bb2645865@gmail.com>
Cc: iasa20@ietf.org
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url=
Message-ID: <f2161cbb-2c2e-38fd-dc23-c1e6e894444a@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:40:08 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4815b979-4729-e1b2-f5a1-3d8bb2645865@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lk0RTcDQ2r2crJ61TTosbIjiXVocv45mK"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iasa20/b5ZPPrmyAWELMExv1MttRY2UHNM>
Subject: Re: [Iasa20] I-D Action: draft-hall-iasa20-workshops-report-00.txt
X-BeenThere: iasa20@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions relating to reorganising the IETF administrative structures in the so called “IASA 2.0” project. <iasa20.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iasa20/>
List-Post: <mailto:iasa20@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:40:20 -0000

Hiya,

On 21/03/17 17:26, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> That's not quite what I was getting at; and I do believe that responsibilities
> can and should be well-defined. My point was that, having observed the IETF
> and various other organisations with a mixture of professional and volunteer
> effort, there is *always* a lack of crispness about what actually gets done
> by the volunteers as opposed to staff. That's just a result of human nature
> and the motivations and incentives that are at work. I'm not saying it's a
> bad thing, either, but it's life.

I think we ought analyse and improve even though perfection
is unattainable.

When I first looked over the list of IAOC cttes and their
members this was one of the first things that struck me. I
couldn't figure out who on which ctte does what from outside,
not who really calls the shots.

I happen to think ending up in that kind of situation after
10 years of operating is not at all strange, in fact it's
entirely understandable.

I'd not suggest we invent one rule to rule them all type of
arrangement for all cttes, but just that someone tries to
characterise, for each ctte, how different volunteer/staff
roles are handled now.

I'd bet a beer we discover stuff we'd like to change if we
do do that.

Cheers,
S.