Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-06.txt (2/4/2022 to 2/18/2022)
Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Mon, 07 February 2022 16:36 UTC
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From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
To: 'Huaimo Chen' <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, 'Job Snijders' <job=40fastly.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, 'Keyur Patel' <keyur@arrcus.com>
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 11:19:18 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-06.txt (2/4/2022 to 2/18/2022)
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Huaimo: Thank you for this feedback on implementation. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 10:39 AM To: Job Snijders; Keyur Patel Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-06.txt (2/4/2022 to 2/18/2022) Hi Job, Thank you for your comments. > I noticed that large parts of the draft are NOT implemented by either of > the two implementations; such as: > * support for T/C/R bits (section 3.1) > * no targets > * atoms (both 4.4.1 + 4.4.2) > * RouterAttr_ In fact, large parts of the draft are implemented. The container structure is the big and core part, and is implemented. * RouterAttr is supported in target TLV. The others you mentioned above seem small. *T/C bits are just two bits, No R bits. *no targets is a corner case, where target TLV does not contain any sub-TLV. *atoms (both 4.4.1 + 4.4.2). The key parts of these are generalized and implemented in RouterAttr from functions' point of view. Best Regards, Huaimo _____ From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Job Snijders <job=40fastly.com@dmarc.ietf.org> Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 9:28 AM To: Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com> Cc: idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-06.txt (2/4/2022 to 2/18/2022) Dear IDR chairs & working group, On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 04:27:57PM +0000, Keyur Patel wrote: > The working group last call has been issued for > draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-06.txt, "BGP Community Container > Attribute". Please reply to the list with your comments. This > adoption call will conclude on February 18th, 2022. > > The draft can be found at: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracke r.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities%2F <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities%2F&data=04%7C01% 7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea462d54%7C0fee8ff2a 3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a mp;sdata=P4FuUp7LztEycz1Mp57LmHlRj2mLYQN6N21J%2FsKHJ7s%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea 462d54%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=P4FuUp7LztEycz1Mp57LmHlRj2mLYQN6N21J%2FsKHJ7s%3D& amp;reserved=0. > The implementation report for the draft can be found at: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf. org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf .org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities&data=04%7 C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea462d54%7C0fee8 ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C30 00&sdata=4IbMmOGntVIS%2BKciDnjjSGRBK1io7HivFuWb%2F6%2FXmN0%3D&reserv ed=0> &data=04%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea 462d54%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=4IbMmOGntVIS%2BKciDnjjSGRBK1io7HivFuWb%2F6%2FXmN0 %3D&reserved=0. IDR tradition is to demand multiple interopable implementations exist before a document can progress towards the RFC publication status. I noticed that large parts of the draft are NOT implemented by either of the two implementations; such as: * support for T/C/R bits (section 3.1) * no targets * atoms (both 4.4.1 + 4.4.2) * RouterAttr_ While the implementation report available to us indicates that some of the features are "optional", this does not relief us from the burden of demonstrating that the "optional" feature can actually be implemented in an interoperable way. As such, the path forward is either to implement the optional features, or to remove the text from the Internet-Draft and spin it off into a separate Internet-Draft (which in turn could proceed if implementations ever show up). I strongly believe that IDR, SIDROPS, and other inter-domain working groups should not ship any text (as part of large docs) which is not directly or indirectly covered in an interopability matrix. E.g. I don't see an issue if there are 3 features, and implementation A covers features 1+2, B covers 2+3, and C covers 3+1 - in such scenarios the full feature set has multiple implementations. Unfortunately this does not appear to be the case for the 'wide communities' document. Many in this working group will probably remember that flexible/wide communities were somewhat contentious because of perceived complexity - the lack of full coverage in implementation reports, and the presence of merely 2 half implementations does not increase confidence that publication of this document will benefit operators in the long term. It is also entirely possible I am misreading the implementation report! I look forward to hear other people's thoughts on this matter. Kind regards, Job ps. I do not mind the two implementations coming from the same vendor house; I trust the two product lines to be sufficiently distinct to be viewed as independently developed implementations. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fidr <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf. org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fidr&data=04%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.co m%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea462d54%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1% 7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjo iV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=GbUJjgACwnki8CUSfbp avFI1mm4HuiF4zjKGqzDGbKA%3D&reserved=0> &data=04%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C50fb90d944c84707a7ad08d9ea 462d54%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637798409450407938%7CUnk nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=GbUJjgACwnki8CUSfbpavFI1mm4HuiF4zjKGqzDGbKA%3D&am p;reserved=0
- [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communitie… Keyur Patel
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Melchior Aelmans
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Zhuangshunwan
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… 'Job Snijders'
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… 'Job Snijders'
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Lange, Andrew (Nokia - US)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… xufeng@voltanet.io
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-commun… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Idr] Closed -- WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-wide-… Keyur Patel