Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ?
Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> Wed, 09 October 2019 08:22 UTC
Return-Path: <rsk@gsp.org>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615841200B5 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 01:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.714
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.714 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oCkuwWpnw0dR for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 01:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from taos.firemountain.net (taos.firemountain.net [207.114.3.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9E8012000F for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 01:22:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gsp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by taos.firemountain.net (8.15.1/8.14.9) with SMTP id x998MUJG026287 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 04:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 04:22:26 -0400
From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org>
To: SMTP Discuss <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20191009082225.GA9444@gsp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <78878.1570543102@turing-police>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/iO6rwKXoiQqp5FhlrF7_IdYWQuY>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ?
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 08:22:29 -0000
On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 09:58:22AM -0400, Valdis Kl??tnieks wrote: > The point is that there's 3 basic cases: [ good analysis elided ] It's the resources outside these that can be a major problem. In some environments, "offering another service to the public Internet" requires formal proposals, discussions, meetings, i's dotted and t's crossed, auditors placated, security people mollified, and so on. And while in this particular case it can be argued "we're making email more secure by doing this" it still won't be an easy sell to some. (more generally) Making email more secure/private is goodness. Doing it via multiple kludges based on TXT records and hostnames and HTTP and so on is not. I'm (painfully) well aware of the obstacles in the way of doing it cleanly, but doing it this way incurs debt that sooner or later we'll have to pay. ---rsk
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Daniel Margolis
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Дилян Палаузов
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Stan Kalisch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Daniel Margolis
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Tony Finch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Tony Finch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] MTA-STS scale (was: why are we re… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why are we reinventing mta-sts ? John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Tony Finch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Tony Finch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Mark Andrews
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Hector Santos
- [ietf-smtp] HTTPS degrading (was: [OT] (signed TL… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [OT] (signed TLDs) Tony Finch
- Re: [ietf-smtp] HTTPS degrading Hector Santos