Re: AI slop "contributions" to IETF working groups

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 07 February 2026 19:27 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A32B3682C9 for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Sat, 7 Feb 2026 11:27:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b="d/8yzROj"; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b="KDz3amn1"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tqZe5WTiLp6Y for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Sat, 7 Feb 2026 11:27:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45E9CB3682C4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 7 Feb 2026 11:27:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 1022 invoked by uid 100); 7 Feb 2026 19:27:14 -0000
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2026 19:27:14 -0000
Message-ID: <10m83mi$2p74$1@gal.iecc.com>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=3ec69879212.k2602; t=1770492424; x=1770838024; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=azVBI9csbrmK26nr5ZcHUDx+Fe+lAw3jox1ql6J55LU=; b=d/8yzROjpPJyaA7XstnV6HwV1jFts5rPj/+WUUyoUhgQZvw4rRgMQnXuyw6UUdcIqG/s/y4C0w2GSMFCzDjjbJmbfHcYciA8WV8mEyqzhOQN8UZltOPqTu9gIkNxzxHgvywFpcN1G9V2b9570rhA1Qy9N1CLynefKhpKpkfxIJDdujwwPW/i0jsxryNyBW5Eo6p7GeYOd3g4lkRDPLfun8Ykg+EkPvKQCqGKZ0cxsDB0HAqQt3UldsLc5VnabIt5JaVtrvxv13/0ZadhvwQP2FduhAgFRCmk1V5wCCzcRyXaPSFwWrsbxjMzz/QnPdjX0opiEehYLyAqNyqMpV1+rA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=3ec69879212.k2602; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=azVBI9csbrmK26nr5ZcHUDx+Fe+lAw3jox1ql6J55LU=; b=KDz3amn1HXiHFhS/1ebseNKyZOLlywhejYcJC+VdbgEQ1Ezzu/u93pFCa1RWbl/jKoPNJs377NbtMTyhI9nsDT4guhWtEzupE0adJU2jnvzrPJaq30cO3DXqD0sdPzpLNWaumCiMjKABqNORuCIvQRgfUez5c/IuzizFZ68aYrLT1DIwnijlvykArYBIfklOhyJ2WmtAQQfqGo23cL30KfkyAgi7kfJ1tNgt9HLdRrOMcl7/d0YQQGMOP0+Vae0dQvc6yqPora6Mbil0J3XG16pjVDw+7sQj4HV/uHi3hC4A4gJXO3eWKML57+A0UYrRnpm7X+vkflpTa0aMpRD9YQ==
Subject: Re: AI slop "contributions" to IETF working groups
Organization: Taughannock Networks
References: <7b702e8f-d2be-5b08-e262-33fbed538f98@foobar.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <7b702e8f-d2be-5b08-e262-33fbed538f98@foobar.org>
Cleverness: some
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine)
Message-ID-Hash: PNR5VW4UTKVY5BLIECSITXUAX5LNVA5H
X-Message-ID-Hash: PNR5VW4UTKVY5BLIECSITXUAX5LNVA5H
X-MailFrom: johnl@iecc.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/-_7ehtNce2agSDjKwwQ44udHbR4>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>

According to Nick Hilliard  <nick@foobar.org>:
>Are there any general IETF guidelines for how to use LLMs 
>constructively? (Or have I finally attained pure dinosaur status by not 
>hopping on the llm bandwagon?)

I think the answer to both questions is no.

My friends at the arXiv preprint server are overwhelmed with slop
manuscripts, to the extent that there are some categories where they
will only accept submissions from people who've submitted known good
papers in the past or are recommended by someone who has. This is a
widespread problem that we will have to deal with whether we like it
or not.

LLM slop mail isn't disruptive in the same sense that we've been
thinking about in the moderation discussion down the virtual hall from
here, but it's basically the same problem, messages that get in the
way of getting work done rather than contributing to it.

I suspect many of the people sending LLM slop think what they're doing
is fine, but that doesn't excuse it any more than it excuses other
kinds of disruptive behavior.

R's,
John
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly