Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-03.txt> (IETF Guidelines for Conduct) to Best Current Practice
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Fri, 08 November 2013 12:29 UTC
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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 03:43:16 -0800
To: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-03.txt> (IETF Guidelines for Conduct) to Best Current Practice
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Cc: Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>, ietf@ietf.org
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Hi David, At 16:29 07-11-2013, David Farmer wrote: >In general I agree with keeping the particular issue of harassment >out of the draft. However, there are some concepts in the >Anti-Harassment Policy that may be worthy of including. I believe >the first paragraph of the policy is an excellent summary of what >the guidelines intend to achieve. > > IETF meetings, virtual meetings, and mailing lists are intended for > professional collaboration and networking. The IETF strives to > create and maintain an environment in which people of many different > backgrounds are treated with dignity, decency, and respect. Those > who participate in the IETF are expected to behave according to > professional standards and demonstrate appropriate workplace > behavior. > >I'm not suggesting you simply insert that text, but maybe ensure all >of the ideas or concepts are embodied within the draft. In >particular I'd like to see the concepts of "professional standards" >and/or "workplace behavior" more directly included. I'll list some words from the text: - dignity - decency - respect There is the following text in the draft: "Regardless of these individual differences, participants treat their colleagues with respect as persons ..." There isn't any mention of the word "dignity" or "decency". These two words usually appear in a code of ethics. I would argue that "professional standards" and "workplace behavior" are influenced by social norms. As an example, a speaker disclosed his affiliations in his opening remarks at the Technical Plenary. The degree to which that is done varies. People generally do not do that in a workplace as everyone works for the same company. I am listed as the document editor of the draft. It must have crossed people's minds whether I am doing it to get a vanity RFC. It is unlikely that the average IETF participant would ask that question. In some cultures it may be frowned upon if a person is confrontational. Being confrontational may be considered as acceptable behavior in other cultures. Let's say I add the word "professional" to the draft. Someone will ask: what is the meaning of the word? Is the person being difficult? I don't think so. What seems obvious to a person may not be that obvious to another person. In essence, people would like to know what is acceptable or what is not acceptable. >Additionally, a little shot of the "Golden Rule" wouldn't hurt >either, its always a good idea to remind people think about how they >would want to be treated if the roles were reversed. There is the following sentence in the draft: "Seeing from another's point of view is often revealing even when it fails to be compelling." The preceding sentence could be changed to: Regardless of these individual differences, participants treat their colleagues with respect as persons especially when it is difficult to agree with them; treat other participants as you would like to be treated. and the "Seeing from ..." sentence be removed. >Finally, in my opinion, part of being "professional" is to apologize >when from time-to-time we each act in an unprofessional manne, we >all fail occasionally. And, regarding Appendix A, a simple polite >request for an apology is frequently the most professional, >appropriate, and expeditious coarse of action. A person might have sent a hasty message or maybe the message was poorly worded. Mistakes do happen. I prefer not to explain that a meaningful apology might help to resolve the problem. My reading of the word "meaningful" is that the person means what he or she says. Regards, S. Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Arturo Servin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Arturo Servin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Ines Robles
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Dave Cridland
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Ines Robles
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Ines Robles
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Ines Robles
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184… Jari Arkko