Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case
t.p. <daedulus@btconnect.com> Thu, 17 May 2012 08:14 UTC
Return-Path: <daedulus@btconnect.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED4C21F85DF for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVjS8AEtus8Z for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:14:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from db3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (db3ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AF821F85E1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 May 2012 01:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail54-db3-R.bigfish.com (10.3.81.237) by DB3EHSOBE005.bigfish.com (10.3.84.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:53 +0000
Received: from mail54-db3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail54-db3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61B616065E; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:53 +0000 (UTC)
X-SpamScore: -32
X-BigFish: PS-32(zzbb2dI9371I542M1432N98dKzz1202hzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h5a9h668h839hd24h304l)
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.224.141; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:DB3PRD0702HT010.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI
Received: from mail54-db3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail54-db3 (MessageSwitch) id 1337242431941085_16281; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:51 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from DB3EHSMHS019.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.81.228]) by mail54-db3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAA41E035E; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:51 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from DB3PRD0702HT010.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.55.224.141) by DB3EHSMHS019.bigfish.com (10.3.87.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:51 +0000
Received: from BL2PRD0410HT005.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (157.56.240.85) by pod51017.outlook.com (10.3.4.178) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.15.74.2; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:13:56 +0000
Message-ID: <004401cd3404$a2c2c780$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net>
From: "t.p." <daedulus@btconnect.com>
To: Doug Barton <dougb@dougbarton.us>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <562A61B995B24BD854A4D154@[192.168.0.2]> <4FB49838.6050300@dougbarton.us>
Subject: Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 09:11:09 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Originating-IP: [157.56.240.85]
X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com
Cc: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 08:14:06 -0000
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Barton" <dougb@dougbarton.us> To: <ietf@ietf.org> Cc: "Barry Leiba" <barryleiba@computer.org> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:18 AM > On 05/16/2012 06:59, Barry Leiba wrote: > > In fact, RFC 2119 says that the normative keywords are "often > > capitalized", but doesn't require that they be. > > Standards should be written in such a way as to remove as much ambiguity > as possible, not show how clever we are. That allowance in 2119 was a > mistake, and the fact that people remain confused 15 years later is > clear evidence of that. > > Normative use of the 2119 key words should always be capitalized. > > And yes, "can" is about ability, "may" is about permission. Choosing to > add to the confusion about the simple English meaning of those words > doesn't make us look any more clever. Yes, normative use should be capitalised and non-normative use should be avoided, but there is also a distinction to be drawn between MAY and the others. Frequently, at or around WG Last Call, the question arises as to the meaning of MAY, the conclusion often being that it is meaningless; this MAY or MAY NOT be the case, so who cares, why bother? MUST and SHOULD are quite different, they do have a force to them and they are distinct. SO while I would not comment on the use of 'may', I would comment on the use of 'should' or 'must'; the latter confuse, the former, who cares? Tom Petch > > Doug > > -- > If you're never wrong, you're not trying hard enough >
- RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Barry Leiba
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Scott Kitterman
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Edward Lewis
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Adrian Farrel
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Andrew Sullivan
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Simon Perreault
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Sam Hartman
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Hector Santos
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Mary Barnes
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ole Jacobsen
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Peter Saint-Andre
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Adrian Farrel
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ole Jacobsen
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case John C Klensin
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Cridland
- Re: [IETF] RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower … Warren Kumari
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case ned+ietf
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ralph Droms
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Dave Crocker
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Hector Santos
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case ned+ietf
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Doug Barton
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case t.p.
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Tony Finch
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Tony Finch
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Julian Reschke
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Lee Howard
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Hector Santos
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Marshall Eubanks
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case ned+ietf
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ralph Droms
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Marshall Eubanks
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Eric Rosen
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case ned+ietf
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ralph Droms
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ralph Droms
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Carsten Bormann
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Ofer Inbar
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Eliot Lear
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Randy Bush
- RE: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Yaakov Stein
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Bill McQuillan
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Stephen Farrell
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Hector Santos
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case John C Klensin
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Yoav Nir
- Re: RFC 2119 terms, ALL CAPS vs lower case Abdussalam Baryun