Re: Predictable Internet Time
Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Tue, 03 January 2017 23:28 UTC
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Subject: Re: Predictable Internet Time
To: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
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From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 15:28:03 -0800
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Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
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On 1/3/2017 3:14 PM, Tony Finch wrote: > > Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote: > > > > Leap seconds are still seconds, which are counted in "seconds since > > epoch". > > Can you you show me where in the POSIX spec linked below leap seconds > are counted? I thought they were not. A leap second is just a way to stall the UTC representation so it takes 61 seconds for a particular minute to pass, but the seconds still pass and the seconds since epoch ought to increment accordingly. The Posic spec describes how to convert seconds since epoch to UTC; it is that conversion where leap seconds come into play. > > > > > http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap04.html#tag_04_16 > > > > $ perl -MPOSIX -e 'print strftime "%F %T\n", gmtime 1483228799' > > > 2016-12-31 23:59:59 > > > $ perl -MPOSIX -e 'print strftime "%F %T\n", gmtime 1483228800' > > > 2017-01-01 00:00:00 > > > > In would presume that the same code would generate a time that is one > > second behind UTC right now. > > I'm not sure what you mean. If you add (24+24+23)*3600 seconds > to 1483228800 you get 23:00:00 today, If 1483228799 is the correct number of TAI seconds since the Unix epoch and if that accurately represents 2016-12-31 23:59:59, then 2017-01-01 00:00:00 should not have been output until 1483228801. Since that wasn't accounted for, we are displaying a "Posix UTC" time that is one second ahead of where UTC actually is. > > > I.e., the Posix code is incorrect in claiming it reports UTC. > > Yes, I agree. > > > NTP reports seconds since epoch; it is in the conversion of that value > > to display time that the issue of leap seconds comes into play. In that > > case, some systems report 59-59-00 and others 59-00-00, i.e, repeating a > > UTC value to account for the leap second in the human-readble output. > > Internally, the number of seconds which have passed is correct and > > include the leap second. > > But if the count of seconds includes the leap second, surely the > number representing the leap second could be printed properly as :60 ? UTC defines it that way, so if you want to output the correct UTC value, that is the only solution. Any other solution - smear, repeating times (59-59-00 or 59-00-00) can be generated, but would be incorrect relative to UTC. Joe
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Toerless Eckert
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Izaac
- Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time sandy
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Eliot Lear
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Eliot Lear
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Jared Mauch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Ted Lemon
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Eliot Lear
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time John C Klensin
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Pete Resnick
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Paul Eggert
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Philip Homburg
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Eliot Lear
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Stewart Bryant
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Leif Johansson
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Eliot Lear
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Leif Johansson
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Michael Breuer
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Tony Finch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Patrik Fältström
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Joe Touch
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Nico Williams
- Re: Predictable Internet Time Harald Alvestrand