Re: Call for Papers: IAB Workshop on Stack Evolution in a Middlebox Internet (SEMI)

[Eliot Lear <[e-mail]>]

Ohta-san:

On 12/3/14, 2:49 PM, Masataka Ohta wrote:
> This time to IETF list;
>
> As I wrote:
>
>> The problem, however, is that the review comment are so
>> surprising that the result of SEMI workshop is very simply
>> proven (see below) to be "incorrect and incomplete".
> are there anyone who argue against the proof?

Yes, because it's not proof.

>
> To explain it less formally without the end to end argument,
>
> According to RFC3424 written by IAB:
>
>     o  Shipping NATs often contain Application Layer Gateways (ALGs)
>        which attempt to be context-sensitive, depending on the source or
>        destination port number.  The behavior of the ALGs can be hard to
>        anticipate and these behaviors have not always been documented.
>
> but, CFP of SEMI2015 says:
>
>    Can common transport functionality and standardization help
>    application developers to implement and deploy such approaches
>    in today’s Internet?
>
> which means SEMI2015 has, quite seemingly, a prejudice to focus
> only on "common" and/or standardized, thus, well known, functionality
> of ALGs, ignoring undocumented ones.

That clearly wasn't our intent.  Rather, you will note that the text you
quote from the CFP is in the form of a question.  That is a good basis
for discussion, not a conclusion, as you assert.  Clearly the end to end
argument comes into play in that discussion.  It is not, however, the
beginning or end of the matter.

Eliot