Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest

[manning bill <[e-mail]>]

I’m going to presume your reference to the National Academies is specific to the United States of America.
Since participation in the IETF is from a global perspective,  this begs the question of the existence of ethical
rules for engineers & scientists in other jurisdictions, and where they do exist, are they in harmony with US 
standards?


/bill
Neca eos omnes.  Deus suos agnoscet.

On 25April2014Friday, at 9:52, Lawrence Rosen <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Phillip Hallam-Baker asked:
>> So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?
> 
> Of course not. But before you reject the ethical rules proposed by the National Academies (of Science, Engineering, Medicine, and the National Research Council), you ought to have a better argument than "I don't wanna...."
> 
> This attitude, unfortunately, diminishes respect for IETF and its standards. And nothing confirms that disrespect better than the almost complete silence here whenever topics such as this are brought up. It is as if IETF standards are generated in an ethical vacuum where "caveat emptor" prevails. 
> 
> /Larry
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:54 PM
> To: Lawrence Rosen
> Cc: IETF
> Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
> 
> So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?
> 
> Thats news to me.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Lawrence Rosen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>>> Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when people 
>>> entered the US, I fail to see how this helps with the NSA/FSB/PLA/etc problem.
>> 
>> The question actually is: Do you agree to the ethical rules for scientists and engineers?
>> 
>> By the way, those ethical rules require only disclosure, not recusal.
>> 
>> /Larry
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:05 PM
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
>> 
>> Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when people entered the US, I fail to see how this helps with the NSA/FSB/PLA/etc problem.
>> 
>> The people who are being paid to subvert the standards aren't going to say.
>> 
>> They might not even know that the objective is subversion.
>> 
>> 
>> Like many IETF participants I have substantial financial interests in several Internet companies besides my employer. Am I meant to put those in a blind trust?
>> 
>> And even if I did all that people would still assume that I am working as an agent of the New World Order. Though quite how the other folk on the conference call worked out that the helicopter is black still puzzles me.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Lawrence Rosen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> I’ve been skimming recent threads  on this list relating to work done 
>>> (or not done) at IETF and was reminded of this from Science Magazine:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Authorship Form and Conflict-of-Interest Statement
>>> 
>>> To meet its responsibility to readers and to the public to provide 
>>> clear and unbiased scientific results and analyses, Science believes 
>>> that manuscripts (including Brevia, Essays, Perspectives, Policy 
>>> Forums, Reports, Research Articles, Reviews, and Viewpoints) should 
>>> be accompanied by clear disclosures from all authors of the nature 
>>> and level of their contribution to the article, their understanding 
>>> regarding the obligation to share data and materials, and any 
>>> affiliations, funding sources, or financial holdings that might raise 
>>> questions about possible sources of bias. Before manuscript 
>>> acceptance, therefore, authors will be asked to sign an 
>>> authorship/conflict-of-interest form. Specific information will be sent to most authors at the time of manuscript revision.
>>> 
>>> Authorship Form and Statement of Conflicts of Interest [PDF]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Part IV regarding “Conflict of Interest” is particularly relevant to 
>>> standards organizations such as IETF. Such a disclosure requirement 
>>> would further encourage everyone to trust and implement IETF specifications.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This document follows the recommendations in On Being a Scientist: A 
>>> Guide to Responsible Conduct in Research, The National Academies 
>>> Press, Third Edition (2009).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> /Larry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lawrence Rosen
>>> 
>>> Rosenlaw & Einschlag (www.rosenlaw.com)
>>> 
>>> 3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
>>> 
>>> Cell: 707-478-8932   Fax: [phone]
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Website: http://hallambaker.com/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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