Re: RFC 5378 "contributions"

I have to agree with Andrew and Tom.

If someone stood up in a WG prior to whenever 5378 was
effective* and made a suggestion of some length, or made a
lengthy textual suggestion on a mailing list, and I copied that
suggestion into a draft without any paraphrasing, a plain-sense
reading of 5378's definition of "Contributor" means that I have
to go back, find that person, and get permission to post that
draft today (without a disclaimer), just because, in making the
posting, I'm asserting that rights are in place that were not
granted when the Contribution was made. 

    john

* I've said this several times before, but neither common sense
nor fairness permits the IETF to say "RFC 5378 became effective
when it was published the first week in November, therefore any
comments, contributions or drafts that appeared after that date
constitute grants of permission under 5378's rules" ...
especially in the absence of any specific notice to that effect
on relevant mailing lists, the presence of a Note Well in the
IETF registration packet that referred to the old rules, etc.
Those of us who trust that common sense interpretation (or who
have been given legal advice that the odds of a judge accepting
an early-November date contrary to that interpretation are
fairly small) need to behave as if we cannot assume that
Contributions made before late November or early December do not
imply permission to use the Contributions under 5378 rules.

--On Wednesday, January 14, 2009 22:52 -0500 Andrew Sullivan
<ajs@shinkuro.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 08:33:35PM -0500, Contreras, Jorge
> wrote:
>> No, absolutely not.&nbsp; Use of pre-5378 materials in the
>> IETF standards process has never been an issue, only use
>> outside the IETF is problematic (ie, allowed under 5378 but
>> not the earlier rules).
> 
> Why is the actual situation of the use relevant?
> "Contribution" is defined in section 1a of RFC 5378, and it
> plainly says that mailing list posting and anything one says
> at the microphone in any meeting is included in the
> definition.  In section 5.1, RFC 5378 says that, by submitting
> the Contribution, the Contributor is "deemed to have agreed
> that he/she has obtained the necessary permissions" to enter
> into the agreement allowing the IETF to use the Contribution
> according to the new rules.
> 
> So, just because the Contribution doesn't _happen_ to end up
> in use outside the IETF by virtue of the IETF's actions does
> not mean that a Contributor doesn't have to obtain the rights
> to allow such re-use.  I believe that the _intent_ of 5378 is
>...

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