Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering-06
Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Sun, 25 November 2018 06:25 UTC
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Subject: Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering-06
From: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
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Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 22:24:55 -0800
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Michael Scharf <michael.scharf@hs-esslingen.de>, tsv-art@ietf.org, opsec@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering.all@ietf.org
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References: <154300282321.9639.11604402305352742547@ietfa.amsl.com> <C4886ABA-3BBE-46AE-B2D9-9A6836D7A8BB@strayalpha.com> <2c28d4ac-87de-bcaf-54e8-4e745235c800@gmail.com> <977CA53D-7F72-4443-9DE2-F75F7A7C1569@strayalpha.com> <d6deb7af-99dd-9013-2722-8ebbe00c0b37@si6networks.com>
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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The reality is that standards are not followed, agreed. That does not imply that we need to relax those standards - instead, it can be reason to fix broken devices. Working at the level of the most broken device is no way to run a production Internet. And claiming that doing so is appropriate for security reasons is just as broken, as it always has been. Joe > On Nov 24, 2018, at 5:13 PM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote: > > Joe, > >> On 24/11/18 17:59, Joe Touch wrote: >> The problem is operators using this advice as if it were BCP - and later docs treating the suggestions as recommended advice. >> >> This treats everything unknown as an attack (a disease I’ve noted in many similar docs for years), where it should also consider that doing so is *itself* an attack on the very flexibility we design in as standard. > > This is the reality: RFC7872. > > We should consider claiming vitory if somehow people were to follow the > advice in this draft. > > This is what happens in the operations camp: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-ehs-packet-drops-03- > > Ironically, the possible harm you apparently see behind this document > is, from an operations-reality pov, kind of a very idealistic take. -- > the situation right now is that you cannot use EHs reliably on the > Internet. If if you even expect non-standardized EHs to go through, > then, while nice, that expectation really needs a reality-check. > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > >
- Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-… Michael Scharf
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Fernando Gont
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Fernando Gont
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Fernando Gont
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Fernando Gont
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Ole Troan
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Mark Andrews
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… C. M. Heard
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ie… Joe Touch
- Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Mark Andrews
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … David Farmer
- Re: [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf… Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Ole Troan
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Randy Bush
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Ole Troan
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Ole Troan
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Christian Huitema
- HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Brian E Carpenter
- game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tsv-art] [OPSEC] Tsvart last call review of … Fernando Gont
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Fernando Gont
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Fernando Gont
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [OPSEC] HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of… Gert Doering
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Stewart Bryant
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Ole Troan
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Stewart Bryant
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Ole Troan
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Gert Doering
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Stewart Bryant
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Stewart Bryant
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Gert Doering
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Ole Troan
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: [OPSEC] HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Ole Troan
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Stewart Bryant
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Joe Touch
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Fernando Gont
- RE: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Smith, Donald
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Ole Troan
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… C. M. Heard
- Re: [OPSEC] game over, EH [Tsvart last call revie… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Jared Mauch
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… C. M. Heard
- RE: [OPSEC] game over, EH [Tsvart last call revie… Smith, Donald
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Gert Doering
- Re: game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of dra… Nico Williams
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Nick Hilliard
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Jared Mauch
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Christopher Morrow
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Gert Doering
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Joe Touch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Jared Mauch
- Re: HbH flags [Tsvart last call review of draft-i… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Joe Touch
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Nico Williams
- OT: TCP session lifetime - Re: [Tsv-art] game ove… Jared Mauch
- Re: OT: TCP session lifetime - Re: [Tsv-art] game… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call rev… Eric Rescorla
- Re: OT: TCP session lifetime - Re: [Tsv-art] game… Gert Doering
- Engaging constructively [HbH flags [Tsvart last c… Alissa Cooper
- Re: ECMP [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-o… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [OPSEC] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of … Fernando Gont