Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications and Infrastucture Area
Melinda Shore <mshore@cisco.com> Wed, 21 September 2005 11:31 UTC
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EI2pF-0001Ss-P4; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:45 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EI2pD-0001Qg-3n for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:43 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13089 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EI2vD-0006wp-2g for ietf@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:37:56 -0400
Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Sep 2005 07:31:32 -0400
X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,130,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="71143432:sNHT2818480890"
Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j8LBVLTE027767; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:28 -0400
Received: from 10.21.96.241 ([10.21.96.241]) by xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) via Exchange Front-End Server email.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:31:28 +0000
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:31:23 -0400
From: Melinda Shore <mshore@cisco.com>
To: David Kessens <david.kessens@nokia.com>
Message-ID: <BF56BCCB.9A2%mshore@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <20050921052524.GI6496@nokia.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2005 11:31:28.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[01D55490:01C5BEA0]
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications and Infrastucture Area
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
On 9/21/05 1:25 AM, "David Kessens" <david.kessens@nokia.com> wrote: > I would have a lot less trouble with the proposal of adding an area if > we would be able to find another one that could be abolished, or > reorganize ourselves in some way or form that would result in no net > addition of Area Directors. I suspect that this ties to the general technical problem of it often being unclear what someone means by "scaling." Something that scales well in one direction may scale very badly in another, and this is probably one of those cases. Rather than focusing exclusively on the problems introduced by growing the IESG we also need to discuss the problems introduced by not growing the IESG, which as someone pointed out include having a large number of working groups per AD. That's a scaling problem, too. I think it generally works well to have the two ADs in a given area have differing broad interests, but I think there's got to be a limit on how large the gap is between their areas of specialization (there does need to be some overlap) and the gap between network transport issues and multimedia application signaling issues really is enormous. There's a structural problem here. A lot of what's going on in the Transport Area today simply isn't transport. Of course RTP is a transport protocol, but SIP and RTSP and so on simply are not, and I think the work required to move those along is too demanding to consider them ancillary to transport (as emergency services would be to the new proposed area). If the same people are to remain responsible for the technical and administrative shepherding of both TCP and telephony signaling, then perhaps it should be the case that we get rid of the area concept entirely, have a fixed size IESG, and have the IESG members be responsible for working groups based on personal interest or obligation or the roll of a 13-sided die. Melinda _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- RE: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Yaakov Stein
- Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications and In… David Kessens
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Lakshminath Dondeti
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… John C Klensin
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Dave Crocker
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Scott Bradner
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… David Kessens
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… David Kessens
- RE: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Yaakov Stein
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Melinda Shore
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Thomas Narten
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… James M. Polk
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… David Kessens
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… C Wegrzyn
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Melinda Shore
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- RE: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Nicholas Staff
- Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit of … Pekka Nikander
- RE: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Yaakov Stein
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Cost vs. Benefit of Real-Time Applications an… Jari Arkko
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Sam Hartman
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Pekka Nikander
- Re: Adding parallelism? (was Re: Cost vs. Benefit… Brian E Carpenter