Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 08 September 2010 21:44 UTC
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:43:47 +1200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Subject: Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's
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On 2010-09-09 09:08, Richard L. Barnes wrote: > s/Informational RFCs/independent stream/ > > If what you're after is RFC == IETF, shouldn't we be eliminating the > independent submission process instead of informational RFCs in > general. Things like RFC 3693 or draft-ietf-geopriv-arch, which don't > specify a protocol, but describe an architecture, seem to properly be > Informational, but still reflect IETF consensus. Er, this whole discussion is hardly new, and is the reason that both RFC 1796 and RFC 5741 were produced. I think we all understand why there need to be non-normative IETF documents; RFC 2475 is a good example. Therefore, RFC /= normative. We also have good reasons for publishing IAB and IRTF documents, which by their very nature cannot be normative. Therefore, RFC /= IETF. Finally, we are an open community encouraging a diversity of views, and it's sometimes necessary (and often desirable) to publish material from the community that meets none of the above criteria. Hence the Independent stream of RFCs. As everyone should know, the independence of the Independent stream is now guaranteed by a much more robust process than before (RFC 4846 and RFC 5620). Since RFC 4846 gives a complete explanation of why the Independent series exists, I won't repeat it here. Incidentally it took me quite a while to accept the last point. My own initial reaction to the Independent Submission stream was that it enabled end runs. However, there are solid mechanisms in place to prevent that. I think arguments given in RFC 4846 are convincing. In any case, you can't put this toothpaste back in the tube. Brian (all IMHO, but I am a member of both the RSAG and the ISEB, which are explained at http://www.rfc-editor.org/RFCeditor.html)
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Shockey
- My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Russ Housley
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 David Morris
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Russ Housley
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 John C Klensin
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Ofer Inbar
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Shockey
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Randall Gellens
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Livingood, Jason
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Livingood, Jason
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Shockey
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Matthew Ford
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS)
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Chris Fenton (Iridescent)
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Patrik Faltstrom (pfaltstr)
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Ben Niven-Jenkins
- RE: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Russ Housley
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Randall Gellens
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Mans Nilsson
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Theodore Tso
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Theodore Tso
- The Evils of Informational RFC's Eric Burger
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Paul Hoffman
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Jorge Amodio
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Gene Gaines
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Eric Burger
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Bob Hinden
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Eric Burger
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- RE: The Evils of Informational RFC's Ronald Bonica
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Richard L. Barnes
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Bob Hinden
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Jorge Amodio
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Brian E Carpenter
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Richard Bennett
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Richard Bennett
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Richard L. Barnes
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Andrew G. Malis
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Brian E Carpenter
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Stephen Farrell
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's David Morris
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Fred Baker
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Olaf Kolkman
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Richard Bennett
- RE: The Evils of Informational RFC's Richard Shockey
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Dave CROCKER
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Kevin Fall
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Bob Braden
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Sam Hartman
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Russ Housley
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Yoav Nir
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Jari Arkko
- Re: The Evils of Informational RFC's Dave CROCKER
- Re: My comments to the press about RFC 2474 Randall Gellens