Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:16:23PM +0000, Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
> Entschuldigen Sie bitte! Toerless!

[ Yeah, last i counted, all my toes are still there.
  I thought the correct abbreviation was self explanatory: "less" ]

All my lamenting here was exactly to avoid running into the achilles heel
of existing onpath router code that would mess up good new ideas. 

Cheers
    Toerless

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Manfredi, Albert E
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 18:13
> To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
> Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt
> 
> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] 
> 
> >> The problem remains, though: security mechanisms, which render the layer
> >> 4 QoS knobs unworkable. Everything outside the "security enclaves" at
> >> either end, and these security enclaves might just be inside the two end
> >> hosts themselves, will have to be delivered best effort.
> >
> > Bert, I don't follow. One of the big wins using the 3-tuple is that it can
> > still indicate a flow even if all the transport transport headers and
> > payload are encrypted. So this should allow specifying QoS without
> > revealing anything about the content except that the sender wants to group
> > certain packets together as a flow and apply QoS on them.
> 
> True, Tom. I was responding to Toeless, when he says:
> 
> "Finally wrt. architectural cleanlyness: Per-flow service negotiation IMHO is clearly a transport layer function, there is no concept of 5-tuple flows at IP layer."
> 
> I saw that Toerless just responded, so he might be saying the same thing. But constraining the idea of in-band signaling to just IPv6 ought to be more workable, although you do need to get all those intermediate routers involved. I dunno. This always seems like the Achilles heel.
> 
> Bert
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de