Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt
Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> Tue, 17 October 2017 16:54 UTC
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From: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 09:54:52 -0700
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Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt
To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
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On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org> wrote: > Tom, > >>>>> [LH] The propose does not introduce new hop-by-hop option header, we only introduce new option carried in the existing hop-by-hop option header, >>>> >>>> Yes, that is exactly what the paragraph from RFC8200 means: it >>>> says "New hop-by-hop options are not recommended". >>> >>> Blindly reciting rules without also understanding and explaining the intent leads to unintended consequences. >>> >> RFC8200 also relaxes the requirement that HbH has to be examined by >> every host which I think mitigates some of the concerns that prompted >> the recommendation against new hop-by-hop options. >> >>> In this particular case, where every hop along the path would need to support it, then that's the exact use case for the hop by hop header. >>> >> I don't think that every hop in the path would necessarily need to >> support this. It may be the case that traffic engineering is only >> being done on one or two links in the path (backbone links for >> instance) so support is needed there, but nodes at other hops could >> ignore the HbH option. > > Right. the HBH is the most efficient way we have to inform an intermediate node, please take a closer look at this packet if you are configured to do so. > There are of course significant deployment issues with HBH and a higher drop probability if you wanted to carry that header outside of the AS. > Ole, On one hand, IETF defined extension headers as the extensibility mechanism of IPv6, but yet on the other hand the message seems to be to not use them because deployed devices don't correctly support the protocol. The upshot is that we see proposals in other WGs of stuffing network layer information into transport protocols (options or payloads) with the full expectation that intermediate nodes will parse into the transport layer, process the embedded information, and possibly even overwrite transport layer information. IMO that is an architectural abomination and further abandonment of the end to end model! > While the 6man working group can certainly help the authors with those considerations, I believe the work would have to be owned somewhere else. > And it might be a little too early to go into the details of packet formats etc. > Agreed, but I do think the 6man working group has a vested interest to make sure that network layer information stays in the network layer. At some point the information needed is going to be so complex that it won't be able to be conveyed in any fields of the IP header. Tom > Best regards, > Ole
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Lin Han
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Ole Troan
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Ole Troan
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Lin Han
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Lin Han
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Toerless Eckert
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Tom Herbert
- Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Ole Troan
- Re: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- Re: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Ole Troan
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Lin Han
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Ole Troan
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Leddy, John
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Lin Han
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Lin Han
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tom Herbert
- Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Mark Smith
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Manfredi, Albert E
- 答复: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Tuboyan
- RE: Hop-by-hop [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signal… Lin Han