Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 20 October 2017 21:41 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F4513431A for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BtDAhnEP0RDZ for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 019A61342E6 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id t188so12800640pfd.10 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OS4d3sAMbja6qloBCBNeYiO/o4Bew4NFrUY+0YsAWp8=; b=JawoCyDpufibqJmTcX1WGA4+/HLk9uwI7Pk5h/n48QWrA9cTXn2if7FgbOp1MeUGmQ TuTTNh6VvhueoVlgeZoTUeq/PRoGGJ7nBv7/IrEn8lwHeW+VkJJTnSbsjJY/CKFAQ+bl LPi/z5VRFnWUzS7tjsjFirAJkgRk0LxyTjueaxXyjp5pKP/19E5WCGqW85GjwbG+XBSW sqSwUI1tpurwppqO89jAxdU7vd/qe58O4YwKtw81Ej7UW1tGXmT1wdYG6NoyT9lBZDsb 7isvkaZADUuymJCOk3aDIdooP/i5YCy5jSbQvl4H8c4zoPRC0WTNIpoI3+PMb3W9v4sv PzBg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OS4d3sAMbja6qloBCBNeYiO/o4Bew4NFrUY+0YsAWp8=; b=HyP65icV1UVm7WDUw5eD7KuPQ1BheYvYGGLV4tMzblncAxFq+PYOyHd93XR0mh4ssB IRSnohqxOvYI2Q3FZbmCvX57aGrHJpbz9rEUbDoFNrYyNLCSsjRz65UdBf79Sfn5ERtJ mWzn4XQAIomjHXoG+AZoOKZbf6vToYLmjWvug3Kc4A2RFPAZd5LNSM3C2CqX6BZKj79g M0t0xi1YicRInqKsYt560AXxDQw3uhbuiugZeUeEmZCCLCQEovO/Co0n3wbyeAeL7sgG Pjthbf+JttJWS/G1zklPDOzJpJecl9HImktVD6gCsRJ8BxMVTK2WC6XU9d3L70ne3yFq 2Xrg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWk/fn8mhS5s955BtO1AR/r3QEM1ldbpwtrS6neKNvk8cezKYx/ 2Pmywy5DeV06EH6p9XQQQ0FxiA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TLSddo5JYqhRVcbKqUe99JwwChATaSkitDcgnBdF5X6sTGGcmDXxeHftnmdzuEWMeJTlXxWg==
X-Received: by 10.84.254.79 with SMTP id a15mr5290807pln.413.1508535707253; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r77sm3313119pfk.93.2017.10.20.14.41.45 for <ipv6@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Flow label [not draft-han-6man-in-band-signaling-for-transport-qos-00.txt]
To: ipv6@ietf.org
References: <CALx6S341v1zd2Q9bts8-zrKxU59kieJTJJ=nHQ5w4oQZg=t_cA@mail.gmail.com> <20171017181646.GD31973@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CALx6S34VRS4GumsFSqN8uDkv4TOLC8q+rOvyN=evUk83KPeHHg@mail.gmail.com> <20171019211637.GB878@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <296dd642b31741cc8ec4aa4b52913037@XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CALx6S36s_SoTqpPo=jXmrFC+pgUkEmF8UB_sx_0zGcK-G8JeTQ@mail.gmail.com> <20171019220935.GD878@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <33ff8930-d1af-ea54-7bb4-a6a9b289269e@gmail.com> <20171020144015.GA3093@faui40p.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <8AE3421D-304B-42F9-B12A-361E21DFF069@employees.org> <CALx6S35nr8JapogAC5Gsi0iPxXhJa9NKOHhzUAnJtmqTwEGtgg@mail.gmail.com> <CDAEBFFD-3B70-41D3-BB41-FCF40ADA2115@employees.org> <CALx6S35Y7OVFFSiw4-ei84HEk0FjEXmS8TnNx8Uex9-0rAxdfg@mail.gmail.com> <2C4B0FD6-418E-441F-8B43-6C60451E3A51@cable.comcast.com> <CALx6S34918E7jJtwezMBtqWE2sL5AGowNYUuHpYBSzOt0JW1-Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <67148eca-0764-3b32-69d6-3e198c5e610c@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 10:41:54 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CALx6S34918E7jJtwezMBtqWE2sL5AGowNYUuHpYBSzOt0JW1-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/ST277lfKhTJ_WphHmdbD90hLXhY>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:41:50 -0000

On 21/10/2017 09:53, Tom Herbert wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Leddy, John <John_Leddy@comcast.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> In order packet delivery requirements considered harmful to the Internet…
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m assuming random per packet flow label assignments are within spec as
>> long as they are set by the source.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Yes, there is no requirement that the flow label be persistent at all in a
> flow. 

http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history says:

   To enable Flow-Label-based classification, source nodes SHOULD assign
   each unrelated transport connection and application data stream to a
   new flow.  A typical definition of a flow for this purpose is any set
   of packets carrying the same 5-tuple {dest addr, source addr,
   protocol, dest port, source port}.  It should be noted that a source
   node always has convenient and efficient access to this 5-tuple,
   which is not always the case for nodes that subsequently forward the
   packet.

So, technically it's a recommendation, not a requirement. But for load
balancing or ECMP to actually work, it's a requirement.

> That gives some nice properties. For instance, at FB we implemented
> flowbender using the flow label so that when a host detects a poor quality
> path it can randomly try another flow label for the connection to hopefully
> find a better path (a type of source routing). Random Packet Spraying could
> use the flow label and randomly set it per packet to achieve perfect load
> balancing in a multi-path network.

I think the MPTCP people might have a word or two to say about that.

   Brian