RE: 64bit MAC addresses and SLAAC

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Fri, 19 June 2020 13:55 UTC

Return-Path: <pthubert@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D873A0A0C for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=HMXDFpB7; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=wyLFhXpn
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVlCLRpjzE-7 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B925D3A09F7 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1439; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1592574941; x=1593784541; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=bS2WQAxCoosHSj4OV78Bml0TQIol8MG+PDnoEh+17Ps=; b=HMXDFpB7aRVFjaU5cdg4L3m8FDbq8x/NpUGeptsX/Li93FWNZTLnRAT5 dN2qnt2HibEQLeSWEjsGph0DN9Cv4PVBsYAhawGAcraLz27f8D5CkgqDE oOL64a+6+JnLkvNnmSVRoS9jiZPzxecP/4BUjVZ1nWMfE/EJyuRBQjeJL k=;
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:07zygRFqjJ102Yhh3LH+pp1GYnJ96bzpIg4Y7IYmgLtSc6Oluo7vJ1Hb+e401gObQMCCrepEiuHRs+brXmlTqZqCsXVXdptKWldFjMgNhAUvDYaDDlGzN//laSE2XaEgHF9o9n22Kw5ZTcD5YVCBvzjrqyYSGx74NUx+IeGmUoLXht68gua1/ZCbag5UhT27NLV1Khj+rQjYusQMx4V4LaNkwRrSqXwOcONTlm4=
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CJCQCbwuxe/4UNJK1mHgEBCxIMQIMcUQeBRy8sh2oDjUGYVIJSA1ULAQEBDAEBLQIEAQGERAKCKAIkOBMCAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVsMhXIBAQEBAgESKAYBATgECwIBCA4oEDIlAgQBGhqFUAMOIAGsZQKBOYhhdIE0gwEBAQWFWRiCDgmBOIJniXgagUE/gRFDgk0+hD+DRYItjx8qAaQLgQIKglqZSZ57jQOEKJ5IAgQCBAUCDgEBBYFqIoFWcBWDJFAXAg2OHgwXg06KVnQ3AgYIAQEDCXyPeQEB
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,255,1589241600"; d="scan'208";a="789351279"
Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 19 Jun 2020 13:55:40 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 05JDteAR004912 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:55:40 GMT
Received: from xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:55:40 -0500
Received: from xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) by xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:55:40 -0500
Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xhs-rtp-001.cisco.com (64.101.210.228) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 09:55:39 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LqnqvVSjtdm8LTg8coBSTyvwYvtPZ/8R8/Y9O/E3NVP7EICXv+SX3ehNwPMsYin7XT8mB3dnfS47/eSHOnhkBxLzky258XUjejWXegajZ0CLl69AxHwoqXkezJm+UX2BC/gev0xddLznWs/UlecXDBKabYOO5CVRhsnQq9TY21zaiTBf2bUoLi+WZ4owziI0Q7V3rAlWzrFiMjCHYb7FvfbbtWevwPG1qOSgcOB3GX/+4xMGWEsed4VdTYt5TxXCYZqykwsPEt2TGAOcvbDDrlMl29T1lONB7YVkZfJyZFrYV5doBtbp+7/h4GY2mddcr8EWZX2KYvCMRzizA/uhvA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bS2WQAxCoosHSj4OV78Bml0TQIol8MG+PDnoEh+17Ps=; b=a6LPRmL4DvxVA3O7F8b50Faovrm5c++JFKnRvz5116X4gMIY8CpWrWQCnFVNl5zHLDLyZcwW009eXQQn3yu0rsD2anXRdza2bgXXO21y/ijxyceSEx3GPpmYo1whwzbu+PeRP0lTv3ltKzgUAUHoYecLDBwd3SejBNDCLb+UX3/wJBFNi2FhuJa8hJZSHz1SpjGfjpmXiaMVeL6fYwFyrcRN1j1x1Nl0Q1HLAM0gCUprHXNTyQm+2k4SziiEkLQUi3ZXwV3Kr/8S+WFDriBpviZZSnKtRaAs9GE6GJVibsVNIDNv4Gf78/OKx2/fRJyFgI7rBQ4u67Z4cu8N57httw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bS2WQAxCoosHSj4OV78Bml0TQIol8MG+PDnoEh+17Ps=; b=wyLFhXpnCavbppioSuOPOiKuCMRk+w1Frcgs+dydj2c+3iRgIDMcBW2UGBFzm6CTDDfm7jawXyG3YKHdY53A9ul1ZcL1kpiKH6TJPmTCB018+RUB3xoFsb896PzoGfXBa7t7fxY6CnnKysew94bk1bOgz3BRpyU49QtqU6J2+U0=
Received: from MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:ea::31) by MN2PR11MB3855.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f6::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3109.22; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:55:39 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::55bb:b065:86c1:1108]) by MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::55bb:b065:86c1:1108%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3109.023; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:55:39 +0000
From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: 64bit MAC addresses and SLAAC
Thread-Topic: 64bit MAC addresses and SLAAC
Thread-Index: AdZEzeuKPFYqBMu/T6aePNfVerw9MgAAiGwAACqIIYAAAt9JBgAknOagAAmUXIUAADABUA==
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:54:22 +0000
Deferred-Delivery: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:51:21 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB35652DAAA66B512ECB644A8FD8980@MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <e716dc36b56f4806b4c4dbfbf1ab852a@boeing.com> <04B8995F-7BF9-4DB0-826C-9E4BF95FD169@employees.org> <43ce64f0-3373-ca9a-f83d-40c44c4d5920@gmail.com> <m1jlwVZ-0000RgC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <MN2PR11MB356561378679A6AD1CA895B4D8980@MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <m1jmHAN-0000OcC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
In-Reply-To: <m1jmHAN-0000OcC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: u-1.phicoh.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;u-1.phicoh.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c0:1006::166]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 36997ef3-455d-414a-4092-08d814587301
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB3855:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR11MB3855AC20A819539EC633FD8AD8980@MN2PR11MB3855.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 0439571D1D
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: R2nuLAObOQnpbq4JT/KyPwY5c8Z9LXwV0bWWsDOwICBHfmCYjQmLI8XuWkO/xCdaEKk1dMN/C+kHirxQRPmG0ufXsmJ0P49KLKZpWLDEtaxepRP26EVJV5QklzRdvv/MNTJrYUhDbScM4jP0ttjm1h27HwPRYVenD2t9bWNBppLBTQuPG1DEUEPjXaOLTap6B57m+4wuI4p6R5/i04lg0AotVmZoWWBUASTC/ypaUvWVZ8++lEpZ2ZJ3tA++C7MP/z6CEE7cI3fbStRwTNlNQo653xBmv1VZsbor8HdJ9kC3BR1i/XjcDxKiKEEpT7UpqKfyXP/xe0nj2jrAFgTofw==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(396003)(366004)(346002)(39860400002)(376002)(316002)(8676002)(83380400001)(4743002)(33656002)(7696005)(8936002)(110136005)(2906002)(478600001)(6506007)(5660300002)(66946007)(71200400001)(52536014)(76116006)(66476007)(66446008)(66556008)(64756008)(55016002)(9686003)(186003)(6666004)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 36997ef3-455d-414a-4092-08d814587301
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jun 2020 13:55:38.9706 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: O5Nq6pVfro0KeX8B3/Ru1+DW31ssdjcr3Zwr8bSXmicvzofa64GONA2bzKjpyGK7LQ5eCL1ky5H5LAfCq1W9Ag==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB3855
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-11.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BaQBw-gXwFl0GPWU84flhGSVdE8>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:55:43 -0000

> > >
> > Is this really, deep down, the nature of SLAAC? Or the consequence of
> > not having a very fast and reliable DAD? Arguably one could autoconfig
> > even IPv4 within a /24 if there's a broker that serializes the
> > requests and rejects the duplicates.
> 
> We have that broker, it is called DHCPv6.

As of today? Depending on what you expect from that broker, e.g., who gets to select the IID, can you use the broker for Address Resolution, etc... 
DHCP is a swiss knife. With a few more blades it would fit the bill nicely. ND could too. There are other candidates but I'd rather upgrade those two to start with.

> 
> Absent such a centralized service, a host would have a hard time proving that a
> address unique, for example, there might be a network split.

We agree

> Current DAD is certainly not good enough if there are regular address collisions

Define "regular". I will agree if it is the opposite of quasi-impossible, which is how we get SLAAC to work.
Thus your original shortcut that SLAAC=>randomIID though deep down it does not, it's just how we do it with distributed DAD.

> and I doubt anybody is willing to come up with a better DAD just to have nicer
> looking addresses in SLAAC.

It's not just DAD, it's the whole ND system that has aged and needs a lifting. Think wireless, overlays, NBMA meshes, large L2 domains...

Keep safe;

Pascal