Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Mon, 09 November 2020 23:37 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
CC: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, "draft-mishra-6man-variable-slaac@ietf.org" <draft-mishra-6man-variable-slaac@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, Dusan Mudric <dusan.mudric@gmail.com>, Dmytro Shytyi <dmytro@shytyi.net>
Subject: Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue
Thread-Topic: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue
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Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 23:37:03 +0000
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Mark, what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me in terms of what we are seeing in the real world today. I was thinking that our airplanes are another example of a (multi-addressed) site > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Andrews [mailto:marka@isc.org] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 3:20 PM > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > Cc: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; draft-mishra-6man-variable-slaac@ietf.org; Alexandre > Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; Dusan Mudric <dusan.mudric@gmail.com>; Dmytro Shytyi <dmytro@shytyi.net> > Subject: Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue > > Well people where thinking at the time that a person could be a site in terms > of wearable networks. They are now a common reality with cell phones providing > a uplink. /48 was chosen with that concept in mind. What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me in terms of what we are seeing in the real world today. In addition to people with their cellphones, I was thinking that our commercial airplanes are another example of a site, and then so are terrestrial vehicles and urban air mobility vehicles. All are sites; all are (mobile) IoTs; all need multi-addressing. Thanks - Fred > Mark > > > On 10 Nov 2020, at 10:10, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > > > I think the notion of what constitutes a “site” has advanced significantly since the > > publication of RFC6177 – to the point that today even my cellphone could be seen > > as a “site” in terms of the multi-addressing requirements its internal networks and > > applications may require. Things that once were regarded as uni-addressed end > > systems are now becoming (massively) multi-addressed IoTs. So an RFC6177-sized > > IPv6 prefix for my cellphone could potentially be put to good use. > > > > Fred > > > > From: Gyan Mishra [mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 2:53 PM > > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; Dmytro Shytyi > <dmytro@shytyi.net>; Dusan Mudric <dusan.mudric@gmail.com>; IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; draft-mishra-6man-variable- > slaac@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Brian, brief comment/question below: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter > > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 1:58 PM > > > To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> > > > Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; draft-mishra-6man-variable-slaac@ietf.org; Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; > > > Dusan Mudric <dusan.mudric@gmail.com>; Dmytro Shytyi <dmytro@shytyi.net> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability issue > > > > > > This message was sent from outside of Boeing. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and > > > know that the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > In line... > > > > > > On 10-Nov-20 04:35, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > In-line > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 3:14 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com<mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Gyan, > > > > > > > > I don't think you were around for the original discussions, so there is an aspect that is missing from your logic below. > > > > > > > > The inclusion of a separate interface identifier field in IP addresses was an entirely intentional feature of IPng. If all we had > wanted > > > to do was IPv4 with bigger addresses, that's what we would have done and the address length would have undoubtedly been 64 > bits. > > > In fact there were various proposals to do exactly that, with a variety of associated transition and coexistence mechanisms. > > > > > > > > But the rough consensus was to do more than that, and to allow *extra* space in the address for an interface identifier that > was > > > not part of the subnetting mechanism. Originally it was going to be 48 bits, so the longest subnet prefix would have been 80; on > > > second thoughts it was set to 64, which gave *exactly* the same extension to the subnettable space as we would have got from > IPv4 > > > with bigger addresses. > > > > > > > > That isn't inconsistent with what we now call BCP198, which says that on links where an interface identifier & SLAAC isn't > needed, > > > subnetting can extend out to /127. > > > > > > > > All that was despite the fact that we hadn't even realised the potential privacy benefits of a host-defined interface identifier at > the > > > time; that is much more recent. > > > > > > > > As far "day 1" goes, please remember that DHCPv6 is a retro-fit: > > > > > > > > RFC1971 IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration. August 1996 > > > > RFC3315 Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6). July 2003. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan> Makes sense then that as DHCPv6 was a retrofit “add on” to the base architecture that this issue came about > afterwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (In fairness, draft-ietf-addrconf-ipv6-auto-00 was dated January 1995 and draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-00 was dated February 1995, > but > > > it advanced very slowly compared to SLAAC.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan> From a problem statement perspective do you agree with the title of this thread “Day 1 interoperability issue”? > > > > > > No. From the dates of the RFCs, it's a "Year 7 interoperability issue". > > > > > > > Do you agree that one way to solve is to allow SLAAC to support longer prefix lengths? > > > > > > That's one way, but it's the wrong way. The right way is for all operators, including mobile operators, to assign /48 or /56 to all end > > > users. > > > > Isn't that exactly what RFC6177 (BCP157) tells us? Should we be working to > > reaffirm that that BCP still applies today? > > > > > > > > Gyan> RFC 6177 - Bottom of the intro it states that no formal recommendation is given. It’s up to the operators to give what they > feel is best. > > > > This document does not make a formal recommendation on what the exact > > assignment size should be. The exact choice of how much address > > space to assign end sites is an issue for the operational community. > > The IETF's role in this case is limited to providing guidance on IPv6 > > architectural and operational considerations. This document provides > > input into those discussions. The focus of this document is to > > examine the architectural issues and some of the operational > > considerations relating to the size of the end site assignment. > > > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > > > Do you agree that this is a major operational issue that needs to be solved? > > > > > > Yes, but as Barbara says, that needs some collaboration with the SDOs and operator fora to get rid of /64 assignments. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > <image001.jpg> > > > > Gyan Mishra > > Network Solutions Architect > > M 301 502-1347 > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > Silver Spring, MD > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
- SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability iss… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Mark Smith
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Philip Homburg
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Philip Homburg
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Mark Andrews
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Mark Andrews
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Mark Andrews
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Mark Andrews
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Gyan Mishra
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Mark Andrews
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… otroan
- Re: SLAAC, Static & DHCPv6 day 1 interoperability… Templin (US), Fred L